This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Seth: Pro-Mole launched this YKTTW but didnt make the entry so i'm going to. I'm gonna more or less copy the formatting from Dueling Shows.
Ununnilium: I'm taking out the superhero section entirely, since none of the films were ripoffs of one another, or even made in the same style; they're just all in the same genre. Saving it here for posterity:
| X-Men | Spider-Man 1, 2 and 3 X-Men 1, 2 and 3 ; Superman Returns; Batman Begins; Daredevil; Electra; Fantastic Four 1 and 2 | The relaunch of the Superhero genre which was big bucks back in the day but died with the making of The Flash is not quite an imitation. Many of these films are for instance made by the same companies. But the success of X-Men reminded producers, writers and fans everywhere that these films could be made and opened the floodgates. |
Seth: They don't say they were rip offs, in fact i avoided that term for any of them. My point was, and where this page differers from Dueling Shows. Is that making one successful film results in more of the same genre being made. After x-men production companies bought up comic titles as i direct result of its success, It is mentioned in the lead in and in the text you removed. So i think it should go back in - this entry covers more area than its sister trope, it only has this name for the tie in.
Whogus The Whatsler: But the tone of the entry is of movie studios jumping on the bandwagon, whereas the superhero revival has been a planned strategy by Avi Arad to bring Marvel back from its near-insolvency in the mid nineties. He started small, testing the waters with Blade; when that did well he was confident enough to go with the major property that was X-Men, which paved the way for Spider-Man, and it went on from there. You could argue that there has been some bandwagon-jumping with new Superman and Batman movies, and...well, Hellboy, I guess...and...see, the truth is that as big a trend as these superhero movies are, it's almost entirely Marvel. There's persistent talk of Wonder Woman and The Flash being made — if that happens, maybe your point will be valid.
Also, I don't know whether this is worth putting into the entry or not, but the prevailing theory about Pixar/Dreamworks is that it's spite — Pixar being first distributed by, now owned by Disney, and Dreamworks co-founder Jeffrey Katzenberg being very bitter (and understandably so) about how Disney treated him when he worked there.
Ununnilium: Actually, IMHO, even if it's not Marvel, it's still not the same. First of all, it isn't just one movie launching the whole thing, and second of all, there's way too much variation in style. I really can't say "Well, movie X clearly inspired them to come out with movie Y".
Seth: Okay the marvel thing can stay out. I didn't know that stuff. As for the Pixar/Dreamworks bit - that's what the misc section is for.
Morgan Wick: My point was, and where this page differers from Dueling Shows. Is that making one successful film results in more of the same genre being made. Hmm. The splitter part of my brain tells me that this is big enough to be a separate trope. But there isn't much of an equivalent in TV, and where there is, like CSI starting the present glut of procedurals, it does fall into Dueling Shows. Hmm.
Ununnilium: IMHO, it can be that without dueling. The "superhero movie" example above is a good one. In TV... hmmmmmmm.
Robert: If two very similar films are released near simultaneously, they're Dueling Movies. If the second is released a year or so after the first, then it's a Copycat Movie. They saw the first was a hit, and decided to cash in on it.
Ununnilium: No, those count as Dueling Movies. Shark Tale was released over a year after Finding Nemo, for instance. The copy-ness is the main point here.
Seth: There might be merit in a trope like Genre Revamp where a successful movie in a long gone or new genre results in a new wave of them (Also granting us our first ever film specific trope). Also can I ask that i revert the Pixar/Dramworks box to how it was - the dates i added are there as illustration that Dreamworks copied Pixar and there was a symmetry i liked by having Toy story in one box as the start of the animated action films between then and then having both examples in the second box.
>>Later:Another name for the trope could be New Wave Cinema
Ununnilium: Except that Toy Story wasn't subject to a ripoff, and the Pixar films clearly came first. This way just makes more sense to me. I'll re-add the dates, though.
I like the idea of that trope. Perhaps Genre Revival would be closer, though.
Seth: Gets my vote - lets see in recent years we have had vampire films and by proxy wearwolf ones, superheroes, epics (Heston would be proud) horror and fantasy.
Pro-Mole: It seems fine for me too.
And, while still here, thanks Seth. I got lost in the starting of the University school year.
Ununnilium: Took The Wild and Madagascar off; The Wild was made by Disney, not Pixar, pre-merger.
Seth: I would still call it an imitation, give it its own box? Its not as if we have limited real estate.
Ununnilium: That's a good point, actually. Tucking it in.
Medinoc: According to Wikipedia, there is much controversy about "which started it first" for this film...
Mangled Master: Deep Impact & Armageddon? Tombstone & Wyatt Earp? Those two Columbus movies that both came out in 1992 for the 500th anniverary? And the ultimate example: Octopussy & Never Say Never Again
YYZ: Incidentally, the Dark Materials trilogy has always been seen by its creator as a rejoinder against the Christian undertones of Lo TR and the Narnia series.
Seth: Deep Impact Thank you! I was trying to remember that name.
Dark Sasami: Ununnilium: Except that Toy Story wasn't subject to a ripoff... That's probably because Toy Story was a ripoff — of the 1986 Henson film The Christmas Toy. If there weren't 9 years in between them I would add it.
Ununnilium: Eh, I disagree. The Christmas Toy was actually a favorite of mine as a kid, but while the plots are similar, they're not close enough to cry "ripoff". "Old favorite toy gets replaced by new favorite toy" is just a really obvious plot, if you're going to have toys as main characters.
Daibhid C: IIRC, there's also that new toy is a science-fiction character, who doesn't realise she's a toy. Although I think was less of a plot point than in Toy Story.
Mister Six: Is it fair to say that Antz is a "rip off" of A Bug's Life when the films were produced simultaneously and released within a month of each other? In fact, I remember reports that the guy who made Antz accused the team behind A Bug's Life of ripping him off.
Ununnilium: I seem to remember reading somewhere about, basically, someone going from Pixar to Dreamworks while A Bug's Life was starting to be made, and Antz being put into production shortly after... but I can't find it again. Anyone else, help?
Mister Six: Me either, but I could've sworn it worked the other way round. Mind if I remove it until someone can come up with the goods? I've got no objection to A Shark's Tale being a rip-off of Finding Nemo, though, because... well, that's pretty obvious.
Morgan Wick: Neither Wikipedia nor I Md B have the goods.
Ununnilium: I'm thinking of cutting the Lord Of The Rings entry and moving the content over to Follow the Leader. What'cha think?
Later: OK, doing so. Thinking of the same thing for Gladiator and Dark City.
Seth: No objection to any of those.
Ununnilium: Doin' it.
Kongming: Do The Illusionist and The Prestige belong here? I don't think they do. I mean, this trope is explicitly about one movie imitating another to cash in on its success. But other than featuring magicians and the turn-of-the-century setting, these two movies really aren't that similar at all. That they were released so close together is probably just a coincidence.
Nobodymuch: The joke about Van Damme and Schneider may be cute, but since Van Damme won a karate tournament to launch his movie career, I don't think it's really true.
The_Mess: I'm removing the joke about elves not aging from the LOTR vs. D&D section, as, while LOTR elves don't age, D&D elves do, therefore there is nothing wrong with Tom Baker playing a very old elf in the D&D movie.
Daecon What about Turner & Hooch & K-9?
no mention of 80's vietnam movies? from wikipedia: "Stallone starred in 82's First Blood about a returning Vietnam War veteran fighting a small town sheriff and its sequel Rambo II. Vietnam War films grew in popularity in the '80s, from being a film subject which was still seen as a taboo in the '70s. Movies like Platoon and Stanley Kubrick's Full Metal Jacket made the war a subject. Chuck Norris starred in the Missing in Action trilogy (1984, 1985, 1988) about a Vietnam veteran going back to rescue PO Ws."
Didn't Pixar do Finding Nemo and A Bug's Life? I think two got mixed around.
Grev: Wall-E and Wanted? Seriously? Cat22: Yeah, I totally favor cutting that. This trope has decayed somewhat (which I don't think is a terrible thing), to where it's really "2 movies that audiences thought were going to be similar". Those two aren't even close!
Somebody want to write up The Road (2009) and Book of Eli (2010)- post-apocalyptic films? Would Legion (2010) and Daybreakers (2010) fit too?
