Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Discussion leading up to rename from The Minnesota Fats

Ununnilium: Would Luna Inverse count?

Gus: Pulled this out because none of the characters listed fit by the definition given: * Buffy the Vampire Slayer came across all kinds of these characters, including The Judge, Adam, Glory, and Veruca.

Some of them were better fighters, but all were eventually shut down by Buffy or the Scoobs.

Whogus The Whatsler: I don't see anything in the entry about "and they never get beaten". In fact it specifically mentions several common ways for the hero to beat the superior fighter. So if you admit some of them were better fighters, how do they not count?

Gus: They aren't better at what she does. She fights evil. They don't.

Ununnilium: The Always Someone Better for Buffy would be, like... Steve, the Vampire Slagger! And she's fighting three vampires and then there's a thock-thock-thock and all three suddenly have stakes in them and fall apart. that.

J Random User: Kendra comes close, but its eminently clear throughout that Buffy is the better Slayer. There does need to be some sort of trope for her sort of counterpart, though...

Idle Dandy: Ooh, that could be a thing. Kendra's more "by the book" and charms Giles, but ultimately Buffy's emotional style of fighting proves more effective. I feel like I've definitely seen that sort of rivalry before. (Now if I can only think where.)

Ununnilium: Sounds like a Stock Aesop: Rules Are Made To Be Broken.
Micah: Removed for being Not a Subversion:
  • Another possible subversion: Lord Peter Wimsey's older brother is not exactly brilliant. When he becomes the chief suspect in Clouds of Witness, he insists that the police ought to let him go without any further questions since he's given them his word that he's innocent.

Subverted in Dexter's season one tussle with the Ice Truck Killer?

dkellis: Trope title proposed for rename. Forum discussion here, rename crowner here. Three day countdown started at Wednesday, 8 April 2009, 17:20 GMT.
Cambdoranononononono: Removed Keitaro from the Love Hina example because, as mentioned, he really just wins often enough to be a decent regular opponent, whereas this trope is about being outshined by the other character.

Marandahir: While "The Minnesota Fats" is difficult to get, and thus is a poor name, it appears on many pages that haven't changed over to "Always Someone Better." I think this is because Always Someone Better isn't a nominal noun, yet this trope is dealing with a character type, rather than a situation. Should this trope have a different name that is still understandable, while being more of a character type?

Would Terrence Stamp's character from Wall Street, Sir Larry Wildman, count? I remember when I saw the movie it struck me how I thought Gordon Gekko was a big deal, then in drops this guy who can buy him 10 times over.