This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.
Emillang1000: Given the possible confusion with Messiah Archetype, one could - probably should - rename this "The Buddha," given that a Buddha fits the bill entirely, and wouldn't get confused with anything else
Zephid: Is there a reason it's Christ Jesus at the bottom of the page and not Jesus Christ? Does the arrangement matter?
Sunder The Gold: "Christ" is a title, not a last name. It's apparently tradition by this point to put it before or after his name as the mood strikes you.
- Jesus actually subverts this quite a few times, with actions that a stereotypical messiah wouldn't do, and tend to shock people who are used to the 'Jesus the Lamb' visage. These include calling a woman a dog, smiting a fig tree for not having figs in the off season, kicking over the money-changer's tables in a temple and chasing them out, driving a crowd of possessed pigs over a cliff, and a few other instances. In addition, he's almost constantly ranting about his disciples' stupidity.
- Context is everything. With the woman, Jesus was putting on a performance to drive a point home to his disciples, who actually did view the woman as a dog. Likewise, the fig tree was probably being used as an object lesson to his disciples, and he didn't have the time to wait for the proper fruit-bearing season. The money-changers were gouging pilgrims to shocking levels in God's own home-on-earth, preventing people from reconciling with Him and generally giving Him a bad name (imagine the IRS setting up shop in your living room). And the pigs were possessed because Jesus kicked the demons out of the man they had been tormenting; the demons were responsible for killing the pigs. And it's a tad unfair to call Jesus's rebukes "ranting."
- Jesus actually subverts this quite a few times, with actions that a stereotypical messiah wouldn't do, and tend to shock people who are used to the 'Jesus the Lamb' visage. These include calling a woman a dog, smiting a fig tree for not having figs in the off season, kicking over the money-changer's tables in a temple and chasing them out, driving a crowd of possessed pigs over a cliff, and a few other instances. In addition, he's almost constantly ranting about his disciples' stupidity.
Added a note that Nausicaa is, in fact, a messiah figure in the more traditional sense as well. - Tanuki
Ununnilium: How is Aang not The Messiah? >.>
Lale: He's a goofy, kind-hearted little kid, but he doesn't have the super charisma of the other examples, nor does he proudly and loudly proclaim to love everybody (Katara reaches out to everybody, from total strangers to arch enemies), nor is he the glue that holds the team together (he's the key that holds the ''plot'' together).
Anon: I'm not quite sure arch enemies quite fits the bill for Katara (at least not anymore she isn't). I guess it depends on how strict are we to definitions, but though she is helpful to the down-trodden on her side of the war, she's not above being relatively hard on fire nation antagonists (though she deplores massacres of civilians as shown in Jet). She called Ty-Lee circus freak in the Drill, apparently taking her way of fighting very personal, she jumped at Zuko when he was first thrown in at the prison in the Crossroads of Destiny without truly knowing him, only easing up once she understood their similarities, and if you're here in Canada and just watched the Western Air Temple she threatened Zuko with death if he should ever step out of line after Aang and the rest accepted him into the group, Toph being his most willing supporter. Again, depending on how strictly we follow the definition, she's definitely a source of inspiration to those of the Water tribe or Earth Kingdom or non-combating villagers, but she is not really one for second chances or a source of pacification to the enemy.
Nickel: I, too, agree. Katara's not The Messiah, though she damn well thinks she is, based on her actions in past episodes. She was naive enough to believe that a by-the-numbers "rally the troops" speech would move prisoners broken by years of captivity, and naive enough to think removing Zuko's physical scars would do the same for his psychological scars. Her motivations were even deconstructed by her brother in "The Painted Lady". She wants to save everyone, but when she she finds out that she can't save everyone, (and that some people would rather that she not save them) her reactions are either 1. Shock, 2. Sulking, and 3. Anger, and considering that death threat, number three is getting worse by the day. She is being changed by her Hero's Journey. Just as Aang is progressing from Fool to Messiah, Katara is changing from Tsundere to battle-hardened Lancer, and, just like Aang, she is definitely suffering growing pains.
Cassius335: Removed the Pokemon example, which a) Doesn't fit and b) Seems to be mostly Ash-bashing anyway.
Unknown Troper: in Victor Hugo's Les Miserables, under literature, certainly The Bishop of Digne counts? He is kind to all living things, sympathizes with spiders, and treasures his silver collection but is willing to give it to the first convict who comes along and tries to steal it. (Jean Valjean might also be a Messiah, come to mention it.)
Uknown Troper: Removed Persona 3 main. He has no personality, being a Heroic Mime, and the only reason the social link system is in place is to get you stat bonuses. Yes, he is a Messianic Archetype — but he's already on that page.
Zyada: Definitely need to change the name. I suggest "St. Francis" as St. Francis of Assisi seems to fit this profile.
Sikon: Removed all Real Life examples to avoid flamewars. Yes, even that one. To put it as succintly and blatantly as I can (and historical accuracy aside) while he may be a messiah to followers of a certain religion, many of the things he does in the scripture don't fit the The Messiah trope at all, at least compared to those fictional examples that I recognize.
Madrugada: deleted "This trope is how Barack Obama is usually depicted in pop culture." as Flame Bait
Ethereal Mutation: Removed the picture for now. While the character herself may fit when given context, this image is kind of distracting and doesn't really showcase this trope very well.
Orihime: Re-adding it, but with an edit that explains why the image was chosen. It Makes Sense in Context, actually. =)
Antheia: I don't really see how Ichigo Kurosaki is an example of this trope. He hardly "believe[s] the best of everyone", I don't think I've ever seen him repay cruelty with kindness or anger with anything less than sarcasm (and he's really quick to anger). If he "loves everyone", he's got strange ways of showing it.
Storm: Anyone else think we should use this picture? h ttp://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k203/Storm_Cyclone/1255839968185.png
