Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

Axe!: Why do people continue to say that Haruhi is omnipotent? She got her power stolen from her by Yuki once, which doesn't make sense if she was really omnipotent. She could be very powerful, sure, but where does this omnipotence claim come in?

Jerrik: This should probably go under the Just Bugs Me page. But to answer your question, Haruhi being omnipotent is something speculated on by the characters in the series. Besides her not being aware of her power, it really hasn't been shown if she has any limits, and people even think she may have created the universe a few years ago. But mostly, its just guessing.
Citizen: I'd put Dis Continuity on those darn English bookmarks The Other Wiki links to (or the word "vanishment" itself), if I could. I'm too used to "Disappearance". =/

Jisu: The official translation of Shoushitsu, according to book materials, is The Vanishment of Haruhi Suzumiya. I know the translations said "Disappearance", and that's a more common word in English, but we have to be true to the source.
Vampire Buddha: I've done a bit of a rewrite of the first part of this entry to give the novels a little more prominence. Also, since this is an English-language wiki, I make no apology for giving precedence to the English titles. If this site was in Russian, I'd insist on Меланхолия Харухи Судзумии.
Jisu: I put this as a note on the Cut List discussion for one of the redirects, but you know, shouldn't we call this entry Suzumiya Haruhi? The second season (heck, the second book, whose events appear in the first season) removes "Yuuutsu" (or "Yuutsu", or "Melancholy") from the title and continually replaces it with new nouns in later installments.

That Other 1 Dude: Yes, we should, as that only refers to the first novel and season of the anime (which even used material from other books). That full title is also really hard to remember.

Citizen: Yes, everything should be moved to Suzumiya Haruhi, with all the other pages redirect to that.

That Other 1 Dude: Does that mean we should have a Haruhi Suzumiya redirect?

Citizen: No, because that would be madness! Gah. Redirects are cheap, but this could get out of hand. =P

That Other 1 Dude: You're just talking about that redirect, not moving this article at all right?

Jisu: Moved it.
Citizen: I wonder about adding a link to the novel translation project... And speaking of which, said project says the author is "Tanigawa Nagaru", not "Gaku Tsugano"... Am I missing something? // (later) Ah, ANN says Gaku's the manga artist. Changed. // So what's your stance: broadcast or chronological order? Watching the broadcast the first time, I was a little disappointed that I was already seeing events that took place after the climax, but the pacing really is much better that way, and the "spoilers" are really only incidental to the real point of the anime.

Jisu: Broadcast, definitely. The pacing is intentional and the climax is at the end.
Susan Davis: There's a lot of detail in the summary here, but it omits the most important fact about the series. Or is that intentionally left out as a spoiler?

Susan Davis: I've rearranged the description a little to avoid burying the lede. Haruhi's nature is the essential fact to understand to know what the series is about, rather than the cover identities of the S.O.S. members.

Ununnilium: >.< Okay, those *are* spoilers. My eye lightly touched upon a sentence, and my "I really didn't want to know that" reaction kicked in. Not baldly stating these things would be preferable. `-`v

Susan Davis: Is that better?

Ununnilium: Not really. The last sentence of the third paragraph is the problem - I don't think even that much should be in the entry, considering the series is barely over a month old and not officially available in the US. Also, two of the tropes that point to the big secret.

Susan Davis: Yanked.

Ununnilium: ^-^v (And now I'm doubting myself because one of my friends read the spoilered entry and says that now he's attracted to the series but wouldn't have been without the spoilers. @@ Can't wiiiiiin...)

Susan Davis: I dropped one teensy little hint that ought to intrigue non-spoiled people without being an actual spoiler. Feel free to yank it if it's too spoiler-y.

Ununnilium: Considering that I couldn't find it, yeah, that's good. ^_^

Big T: What I find sufficiently frustrating is that I can't even go back into the history and find out what the big secret is. Can't we at least spoiler tag it? And if it's what I think it is, I think we really need to feature it. There aren't enough meta-shows out there.

Jisu: I still maintain that it's not a spoiler, since it only appears in broadcast episode 05 (chronological, 03) and is integral to the point.

Big T: Look like I'll have to find some other way to watch way. Internet to the rescue!

Big T: Take two: Um, I think I figured out what you are referring to, and it is pretty much It Was His Sled. At least, I knew about it already, somehow, and I haven't watched anime in years.

Shoudn't no Name Given be extended to Kyon no imouto who doesn't even have a nickname?

Kendra Kirai: Also the Computer Club President.

Citizen: I have my own doubts about the caption box... "Format: Anime" is a little unnecessary, and I've never seen the "Mundane Fantastic" label before...

Seth: I never use the caption box anyway - its all covered in the main entry. Format Anime might seem redundant but since we have non-anime shows listed here too its not really, the box is (To my understanding), a quick look and know thing - summing up the series in as few words as possible - i dont suppose it hurts. Out of curiosity what would you peg SHNY with? Id go with "High School Sci Fi Comedy"

Magic Realism is Mundane Fantastic BTW.

Citizen: Well, my point about the "Format: anime" was that I've never seen that on ANY other anime page, and the picture included makes it kinda obvious. Peg Suzumiya as Slice of Life + Sci-Fi + Comedy... or something. ^^

Morgan Wick: Well, something can look anime without actually being anime.

Twin Bird: Does this really count as a spoiler, though? Everyone's calling it the "big secret," but it's revealed in the fifth/third episode of fourteen. Plus, the series is (at least online) so well-known by now that even in the US, it's quickly approaching It Was His Sled status...

Citizen: Really. The Big Secret is the basis for the whole series (revealed in the first novel and early in the anime). Not to mention it's an exaggeration, anyway—Itsuki disagrees, and the later novels support him.

Smokie: I honestly think its simple Genre-Busting of finest quality. I mean you can't say its just Sci-Fi, neither can you say it just comedy or romance, hell it has some action scenes too! I sometimes feel as if the author has taken many genres, put them into a blender and mixed them. Still, it came out to be awesome didn't it?

Pavlov: Hey, ever heard of the Six Degrees of Kevin Bacon? Try this: click the Random Item button, then start clicking links. See if you can get to Suzumiya Haruhi No Yuutsu in six clicks. This show is so popular that it's interconnected to everything.

Susan Davis: There's a variant of that, actually, entitled Six Degrees of Megumi Hayashibara....

Ununnilium: See also: Trope Overloaded.

Pavlov: I'm going to take a stab and guess that you meant Trope Overdosed. Which looks pretty interesting!

Ununnilium: ...that, yes. I really do need to check these things after I write them. >>;
Khym Chanur: Does Kyon count as a Non-Action Guy? He is the only normal member of the Brigade, but then only two out five of the Brigade members are ever shown actively using their powers.

Citizen: The description seems to match up fairly well...

Jefepato: Now that I think about it, I guess he is. It's just not especially obvious because action isn't a big focus of the series.

Morgan Wick: The image link doesn't seem to be working.

Jefepato: Looks fine to me...

Morgan Wick: Emphasis on the word "link". As in "behind a link for size reasons".

Jefepato: Hm. In that case, you are correct and I am possibly Too Dumb to Live.

Jefepato: I'm starting to wonder if Kyon is a mild example of Book Dumb. He comes across as pretty smart, and uses a wide variety of references in his speech, but is barely above average as a student and, in the novels, needs Haruhi's help in some subjects.

dkellis: I think he is. Kyon has a rather staggering amount of trivia and pop culture knowledge, but he does need Itsuki or Yuki to explain the more theoretical aspects to him. He seems willing to learn complex subjects (especially if something important hinges on it), but he does give up fairly easily when it doesn't really matter anymore.

Citizen: I disagree. He does sprinkle his thoughts/conversation with a wide variety of references, but aside from that he's just the straight man.
Jefepato: Can someone elaborate on Kyon's Obfuscating Stupidity? I don't necessarily disagree, but I can't recall any specific instances where he falsely claims not to know what's going on.

Twin Bird: It's not as obvious in the anime, but in the books, he's pretty clearly always on top of things.

Jefepato: I've read the first six, but perhaps I should check again...
Twin Bird: The subplot of needing five members added in the dub - would that qualify as a Woolsleyism? It's not glaring enough to be Macekre. And was it actually added for the dub, or was it just edited out of the Japanese version?

Lumbargo: If you're talking about "Five people needed for a club", that was in the original Light Novels, and I'm fairly sure it was in the Japanese... or was it?
Lumbargo: Ok, try as I might, I can't figure out any examples of Seinfieldian Conversation. Can anybody help out?

Dreamoflife: The closest thing I can find is Itsuki's random philosophical ramblings, but that doesn't really fit the trope.
Dreamoflife: Out of curiosity, where's the Neon Genesis Evangelion shoutout?

Lumbargo: Might, might, be during the Day of Saggitarius. Not totally sure. I know there's one somewhere, though... I think it might be the way Yuki (...Rei) has a dozen clones of herself as her crewmembers. Possibly. Maybe.

((KKDW)): I think it might be in episode 7 where we get a shot of the Computer Research Society president's bookshelf, the a.f.k fansubs translate the spine of one of the books as Emangelvion Storyboards Volumne one.

((TTG)): It's in Endless Eight. In one loop, Kyon moans that he knows what Eva 00 felt like after being hit by a beam after working his ass off in a frog suit.
Drow Lord: Interesting note, in one of the episodes (where Haruhi and Kyon go to check out Ryoko's condo), at one point during a conversation, you can see a sign for one of the stores along the street. Specifically, a Sunkus convenience store. Anyone know if the anime was location shot?

Lumbargo: I believe it was, though I can't find any proof at the moment; I believe some of it lurks within the images or possibly the General Discussion of Suzumyia Haruhi over on the Anime Suki boards. I'll check it out later. Suzumiya Haruhi generally has Wc Donalds everywhere, like many other anime.
Rogue7: Deleted the bit about Haruhi turning back into a jerkass. She doesn't. particularly if you look at it from a chronological perspective.
Thunder Phoenix: I think it's about time to axe that "of Spring 2006" part and just make it "of the 2000s".

Thunder Phoenix: Someone did it! Hooray! I'm useful! </Zoidburg>
Duckluck: I'm seeing this referred to by a ton of different names all over the wiki. Can we just pick a title and use it already. Ideally we'd want to use the whatever the official English title is because this is an English wiki, but I don't really care too much which title you all pick as long as you pick one and stick with it.
Redkun: Removed the following-
  • Expy (Mikuru and Yuki are clearly allusions to Asuka and Rei of Neon Genesis Evangelion, with the former's bitchiness and the latter's creepiness removed, and the cuteness of both squared to inifinty.)
Both Yuki and Rei are your standard anime Emotionless Girl so I don't see how they're connected beyond that. And if Asuka read that, she would punch you. Asuka is an extrovert with severe Parental Abandonment and Mikuru is a time-travelling doormat. Beyond their matching hair colour and number of limbs, I fail to see the Expy.

Smokie: It seems like people have some kind of urge to compare TMOHS with Neon Genesis Evangelion. Heck, I don't even think Yuki is that much of an Expy from Rei. She obviously has both self-consciousness and independency to the point of being a pretty normal human, except that she has no facial expressions. Her loyalty does not only change in priorities, she also has an existing will to live. It seems like people watch 1 episode, say "Wow a shorthaired girl that talks rarely and shows no emotion, she must be a clone of Rei!"

dkellis: The Nagato is a Japanese Navy ship. The Ayanami is (was) a Japanese Navy ship. Could be coincidence.

Grahf: I thought there was actually a fairly good argument for Yuki's relation to Rei beyond just physical appearance and mannerisms, namely the following: OMNISPOILERS for both series following They are both something beyond human, as Yuki is a data alien thing, and Rei is at least half angel or something to that effect. They both save the lives of the main character, Yuki vs. Ryoko and Rei shielding Shinji from the attack of Ramiel, they both initially start seemingly emotionless, but soon learn to experience emotion via the help of protagonist, they both change loyalties with Yuki erasing the data overmind and Rei betraying Gendo at a critical juncture, and they both give the final choice of how the world will work to the protagonist: Yuki via the escape program from the alternate timeline, and Rei at the End of Evangelion choosing to act in accordance to Shinji's will rather than that of Gendo. They are also both fiercely loyal to their respective protagonists, as already demonstrated on both parts. God that was a lot of whitespace. I don't know if all of that needed to be whited out, but better safe than sorry. Anyways, does that make a compelling case?

Smokie: Anyone else thinks that Suzumiya Haruhi is a deconstruction? I mean it plays with all sorts of character tropes, usually in a american sitcom-like comedic relief. For example Yuki as Emotionless Girl is usually depicted as The Stick. Or when Kyon tells Captain Obvious Koizumi that he talks way too much. Or when Kyon snarks just how utterly unrealistic a person like Haruhi is - "Its.. like a bad comedy scheme or something."

I just kind of feel that the Anime loves mocking its own tropes. Isn't that deconstruction?

dkellis: Suzumiya Haruhi is listed in the Deconstructor Fleet, yes.

Smokie: Deconstructor Fleet really covers what I wanted to say, more than Deconstruction. But seriously, the discussion page there just makes me sad. It's not the same as Deconstruction, you know?

Scud East removed as inaccurate the comment next to "First Girl Wins": "(Although, as has been pointed out elsewhere, Kyon's first view of Haruhi is her chest.)" As accurately stated on the Male Gaze page, the viewer's first clear view of Haruhi, toward the end of the first broadcast episode, is of her chest. The image representing Kyon's first view of her, near the beginning of the second broadcast episode, just after Haruhi introduces herself to the class, is of her eye.

Pavlov: Wow, that entry changed a lot. You know, I actually added "First Girl Wins", thinking it meant the first girl introduced to the main character. Later, I realized that it meant the first girl introduced to the audience. I could have deleted it, but people had altered the entry and I didn't feel it belonged to me any more. So I made up some rationalization about Haruhi being the First Girl in the books while Mikuru was Last Girl in the books. Now that there's no comment, maybe it'd be best if someone just took the entry out and shot it.
Pavlov: Stuck the old Haruhi image up at the top of the discussion page because after two years of seeing it adorn the main page, well, um, I thought it might get lonely. And I missed it.
Charred Knight: Smokie, that was no troll, Newtype announced new information about a Re-launch of Haruhi, which most people took to mean the long awaited second season. It turns out to be an announcment of a rerun which Newtype was obviously using to hype of sales of Newtype. Since I have seen references calling the second season of Haruhi the anime equivalent to Duke Nuklem Forever i added a link to that after mention of it. Personally I don't care since I found Haruhi to be an unlikeable ass, and her fans annoy the hell out of me.

dkellis: So would Melancholy of Haruhi-chan Suzumiya have enough tropes of its own to warrant a split?

Grahf: For the sake of preventing even more links and tropes being added, that might be a good idea. Half the cast has adopted at least one more character trait: Yuki becomes an Otaku Haruhi gets played as a straight up Genki Girl from the look of it, Kyon is also now, as the manga puts it, "The Tsukkomi Guy" which is a combination of being a Chew Toy and Butt-Monkey and being well aware of it. Hell, Achakura could even be considered The Woobie judging by her appearance in this latest episode. Getting to the point, with all the changes being implemented to both the characters and the different feeling it invokes overall, I'd say that another entry is probably the way to go.

dkellis: So, immediate split, or a separate section on the same page? And do we need to split the character page as well, or create a new section, or just put all the Haruhi-chan/Churuya-san stuff in the series page/section?

Grahf: Putting it in an entirely new section would at least allow people to see just how many tropes and things there actually are, and if there's not enough to have warranted the split, then it can always be merged into the main article and character sheets, so an entirely new index that encompasses both Haruhi-chan and Churuya is probably the way to go for the moment. Mind you, I'm new to all this, so it would be nice to get a couple other views on it as well.

Sines: Artistic License - Biology doesn't seem appropriate. The only time I recall evolution being mentioned is in terms of the Integrated Thought Entity. And while maybe it's bad to use the world evolution regarding a non-corporeal entity (Or whatever it is), it's likely that its just the closest term to describe it.

angermyode: Seconded. Furthermore, in the novels, what the Integrated Sentient Data Entity is after is "autoevolution", which seems to be the idea of taking the reins of evolution out of the hands of selection. Or something. The only mention of regular old evolution is when Kyon speculates that something like the data-lifeform that was possessing a dog of a schoolmate might have interfered with early hominids.

Rogue 7: Where are these new episodes, why haven't I heard of them, and why must I have class in half an hour?

Taelor: They're not out yet.

dkellis: Since we don't have any confirmation either way, removed:

  • The second season was hinted to be airing sometime in April based on an upcoming Newtype cover.The reality: They're only re-airing the first season. The Internet exploded. The producers dearly love trolling the fanbase for the sake of publicity. theres new episodes after all. trolling indeed!

Rhae: heres the the link about what is (hopefully) new episodes.

dkellis: Artefact has never claimed to be a completely reliable or unbiased source of news. He's happy enough to speculate, but all we know is that the airing is set for two cours. What will actually happen is anyone's guess. What I mean is that Artefact sometimes posts absolutely accurate and definitive insider info, and he also sometimes posts as fact what amounts to wild speculation for the lulz and the reader hits. When it comes to Suzumiya Haruhi, it's best not to assume that it's one or the other. (Before anyone accuses me of character assassination, Artefact has said himself quite explicitly and specifically more or less what I just did.)

dkellis: Temporarily removed from the First-Name Basis entry until someone figures out a way to make my reply non-nattery:

  • Does she refer to -anyone- by name?

Yuki refers to Mikuru (both versions, although occasionally she specifies whether it's the "time-displaced" version) and Koizumi by their full names (every time), and Haruhi and Tsuruya as "Suzumiya-san" and "Tsuruya-san" respectively. I personally cannot remember her directly addressing someone by name, however; the usage of other people's names are usually when they are not around. Since the novels are entirely from Kyon's perspective, he hasn't heard how Yuki refers to him when he's not around. (The one anime-original episode where events are shown outside of Kyon's perspective, Yuki doesn't speak at all.) Offhand, other than "you", I think the only other way Yuki refers to Kyon is "that person".

Synaesthetic: So what really happens if one mentions that they like both Haruhi and K-On over at failchan, or compares the series in any way?

Taelor: I object to the accusations of Jumping the Shark. There's still three full length novels and a buttload of short stories worth of material to animate, and it is good material. So, provided that Kyoto Ani doesn't pull anything like this again, I'd say that the Jumping the Shark allegations are a bit premature. Perhaps Dork Age would be more appropriate?

Anon: I'm curious. How many seasons' worth of material is there remaining, assuming Season 2 ends with The Sigh of Haruhi Suzumiya? I haven't read the novels.

Heatth: Well, assuming the new episodes will end on Sigh, the we will have a little more then 5 books that have yet to be covered + the one which has yet to be released... Easly 2 seasons of 14 episodes. Probably a little more.

Unknown Troper: I'd like to get feedback before adding Fan Disservice to the page. For me, at least, Speedo!Itsuki in Season 2, episode 6 was a bit of a turn off. If I'm the only one, though, Fan Disservice probably won't apply...

urutapu: We are in accord.
Having Haruhi mention the importance of finishing her homework early in every Endless Eight, would that count as Anvilicious?

urutapu: I didn't mind it while watching (because it's just another one of the repeats, meaning the fact that it's in every Endless Eight is a moot point), but now that you mention it Kyon does ask the question with zero buildup.
src9: Why all those subjective tropes are being used for Endless Eight? It hasn't even ended nor it has been announced for sale yet!

whitetigah: That doesn't matter. The simple fact that somebody feels that Endless Eight being Endless is a Wallbanger means they have the right to add it to the article. It's always been that way. For example, look at the Wallbanger in the article for Toradora!: personally I don't agree that particular plot twist is a wallbanger, but somebody does, therefore removing it wouldn't be right. I'm sure there are countless other examples like that one throughout the wiki.

ninjacrat; This isn't the complaining about shit wiki. Go ahead and delete it.
Caswin: At the risk of betraying my total lack of personal experience with this series... under the "Rape as Comedy" category, isn't there a big difference between (future) Mikuru showing Kyon the mole on her breast and Mikuru being harassed without provocation by someone else? It sounds like someone is lumping "anything to do with her body" under the same behavioral heading.

Caswin: Pulling it.
Itsuki seems to like invading Kyon's personal space, and there are several lines in the novels that seem like outright flirting. When directly asked, he states that if he didn't act that way, Haruhi would rewrite him to be that way. This explanation fails when you realize he only acts this way around Kyon when Haruhi is not around.
Rhiow: Not to bring discussion into the main page, but where does he say that?

Citizen: Looks like Novel 6. But he was talking about his general personality/courteousness, not Ho Yay with Kyon.  (clicky) After looking over the passage, I decided to revise the reference.

Willbyr: The first three paragraphs feel very out of place in relation to the rest of the article intro. Anyone have objections to moving them further down into the meat of the intro?
Filraen: removed the following line since it's about Haruhi-chan as the line itself reads; there's an appropiate entry in that page anyway

* Sinister Silhouettes — Parodied in episode 2 of Haruhi-chan with Asakura claiming to be part of a "Radical Big Four".

Whose idea was it to tag every mention of Endless Eight as Exactly What it Says on the Tin? It seems like a gratuitous way to add several more wicks Haruhi's already Trope Overdosed page.

Filraen: I don't know, but it is right as far as I've checked: it looks like in japanese there aren't names for different months so they are called by their month number (January shares the same name as "one", since it's the first month of the year). Following that, Endless Eight is equivalent to Endless August, being Exactly What It Says on the Tin at least in japanese. I don't know why the translators didn't used that instead of "Endless Eight" though.

Urutapu: While Filraen is pretty much right (and, by the way, it's "Endless Eight" because the title is in English—it's not mugen no hachigatsu or anything like that, it's endoresu eito), that obviously wasn't the person's intention when adding links everywhere. He also added Overly Long Gag for some of them. He was just hammering in that "yes, Endless Eight was endless" in an extremely annoying way.

  • Token Deity — As it turns out, God is actually a bisexual Japanese schoolgirl. Who knew?

  1. "Haruhi is God" is Fanon; in the show it's a worst case scenario from Itsuki, not the established truth. Yes, Wikipedia lists her under "fictional deities". Wikipedia contains plenty of mistakes.
  2. Being Japanese doesn't qualify an anime character as a token.
  3. I'm not convinced that she's bisexual, which seems to be mostly based on a single line in the first (chronological) episode. There's quite a bit of discussion of Haruhi never going out with guys for any length of time and thinking guys are worthless, and a similar conversation at the start of episode 4 . All of it (except for that line) is written in such a way that it assumes that guys are all she might ever want to go out with.

Is it just me, or is it that shamisen shouldn't really exist in the disappearance/vanishment novel? Because in that timeline there would be no reason for kyon to pick up shamisen, coz there would be no haruhi to force him to take it home.

It is true that Christina Vee is an Ascended Fanboy (-girl), but to be clear, she is only the Haruhi of the promotional material from BANDAI, and is not actually featured in the BANDAI version of the animated show. Unless they're doing something I'm unaware of.


KKDW: OK, can I just ask...where did this come from? Seeing it here it the first I've heard of this, is this a joke or something? I certianly can't find anything anywhere else about it.

"...then release an announcement stating that there will possibly be no more animated Haruhi after the movie"