Archived Discussion

This is discussion archived from a time before the current discussion method was installed.

alliterator: I removed:
  • Arc Words: Ok, arc symbology: The Comedian's smile face...particularly the one that showed up on Mars.
  • Attempted Rape: The Comedian is interrupted by Hooded Justice.
  • Rape Is Love: The first Silk Spectre returns to have a consensual sexual encounter with the Comedian after his attempted rape. Later scenes suggest that she is in love with the Comedian.
Because all three were from the graphic novel and the movie. This page is for movie-only tropes (or else it would just be almost entirely copied from the other page).

Indigo: I thought the smile face on Mars was movie-only?

alliterator: Nope, it's in the graphic novel as well. And actually, it's a real crater.

alliterator: Now I removed this:
  • Mean And Sarcastic Jew: With his sickening blase attitude to suffering, and his utter inability and refusal to see the goodness in humanity, you'd be surprised that The Comedian of Watchmen isn't a member of this trope. Ozymandias did the world a great favor throwing him out the window, ridding it of his hateful cynicism and contempt for life.
Because 1) if it's an aversion, it doesn't need to be here unless it's something in the comic that it averts (like Gory Discretion Shot - which was used in the comic, but not the movie), 2) it could easily apply to the comic as well as the film, and 3) it seems unnecessarily mean. Why include the Comedian as that trope if he isn't a part of that trope? Plus, Mean And Sarcastic Jew seems just like it's a bad trope idea.

  • Ronin Aquila: Why include the Comedian? Because he acts exactly like every blase, cynical, condescending, mean-spirited, rude and culturally disrespectful Jew in media and real life. Real Life Example? A short-lived friendship with a Jew ended with following conversation:
  • Jew: What are you going to do when you leave Uni (Australian Slang for "University" or college)I'm going to be a Rabbi.
  • Ronin Aquila: I'm going to Taiwan to learn Martial Arts.
  • Jew: (Sarcastic Sneer) Why?
  • Ronin Aquila: I'm trying to preserve my culture, just like you are. Have something Chinese to pass onto my children?
  • Jew: (Cynical cough) Nah, just take a gun and shoot your enemies. Kung Fu is useles anyway.
  • Ronin Aquila: (Eyebrows narrow in justified anger)
  • Jew: (Seinfeld like sneer) It's just a joke!!
  • I'm putting the Comedian RIGHT BACK IN because he acts JUST LIKE an unecessarily cynical and disresptfully sarcastic Jewish cynic.

Somfin: Wow... so his being Jewish is the main reason for his cynicism?

Ronin Aquila: Sure feels that way. A Jew-converted-to-Buddhist (and hence disowned by his hateful family) acquaintance of mine told me that Holocaust survivors cope with their (understandable) trauma by making a mockery of everything else but the Jewish way, in a self-centered attempt to compensate being made to feel inadequate as a people by Hitler. This is coupled by a compulsive need to feel nothing for any other human being but themselves so that they will never be hurt again. Along with their ironclad conviction that "They Are God's Chosen People", results in a condescending and arrogant sense of humor that belittles and insults all that does not originate from their so-called "promised land." This attitude, of course, is passed down onto their children and grandchildren through upbringing and example. That Seinfeld-wannabe insulted Our Five Thousand Years of Warrior Heritage, our Heritage of Dragon Blood, for something as worthless as cheap momentary-laughter. Frankly, with every Mean, Sarcastic and cynical Seinfeld-Wannabe I meet, the less I hate Hitler.

Greenygal: If you were going to retract things you'd said, I would have started with "the Holocaust was okay because Jews have been mean to me." Please keep your appalling prejudices off TV Tropes.

Ronin Aquila: So, his insult to my culture is acceptable because a few of his grand uncles and grand aunts got shoved in a few rooms wih an abundance of gas by some Germans? Nobody complains or shouts "Racism!!" when a Chinese is simliarly insulted, WE have ALSO have our culture almost destroyed by white men!! But lo and behold criticize a Jew's manners (not his heritage) and you become a leper like Mel Gibson. No, not all Jews deserved to die. In fact I'm GLAD that NICE people like Steven Speilberg and Mel Brooks' family survived (which I stated in the trope Mean And Sarcastic Jew before it got deleted). It's just a pity that people like Seinfeld's and that bastard's grandparents ran too fast before Hitler could give them a well-deserved gas-shower for being the sort of people who will raise monsters like them. If only those Gestapo have been just that little bit faster, a whole generation would not have their minds poisoned to think its okay to be rude-cyncial-and-disrespectful and treat other human beings like dirt for something as worthless as humor.

Somfin: I'm just gonna call Troll on this one. There's no way to say that much offensive stuff without being the kind of shut-in lonely lives-in-his-parents'-basement type who is desperate for any reaction, any at all, and is willing to deface a perfectly good site with stupid tropes and disgusting politics. Go back to Conservapedia.

Rogue 7: Ronin Aquila, are you off medication or something? Most of the time when I see your edits, you're perfectly normal, but occasionally you break out in this ridiculous Asian jingoism that I simply don't understand. Give it a rest, please.

alliterator: Oh man. Now I'm glad I was fully justified in thinking Mean And Sarcastic Jew was a racist trope. I thought I was just being overly sensative (since the "sarcastic Jew" is sort of tropish), but I guess I wasn't. As for Ronin Aquila, well, the only comment I could possibly have starts with a "f" and ends with an "uck you," so I'll be silent on the subject.

Rogue 7: "firetruck you?"

Rinny: Er, moving along... Slo-mo is used "occasionally"?!

Somfin: Surprisingly occasionally. Have you seen the film? It's subtle, it's only when awesome, and you barely register it when it does happen.

  • Downer Ending: Manhattan gets framed for the murder of millions, and Oz gets away scot-free. Except for Rorschach's journal, which could have the US and USSR at each other's throat again.

Simply because it wasn't much of a downer. In fact, the ending was surprisingly light in tone, all things considered.

Haven: Re "It's not as heartwarming if you're in the small camp that thinks Rorsharch had more than just friendly feelings for Daniel." How does that make it less heartwarming? Either way, it's Rorschach expressing warmth towards another human being, which is something he never does. (Also, why is it in spoiler tags?)

Kalle: This much talk of the Soundtrack Dissonance, and no one is going to bring up My Chemical Romance playing over the start of the end credits? Seriously, biggest freaking anachronism ever.

HeartBurn Kid: Regarding this:

Does it really count as a BLAM? I mean, it's there to basically give three big insights into Dan's character:
  1. He's in love with Laurie
  2. He sees himself as Nite Owl, not as Dan Dreiberg
  3. He's deathly afraid of the forthcoming nuclear holocaust, which explains why he goes along with Ozy's plot.

Somfin- This is all true, but a lot of BLA Ms are supposed to give character insights. This scene comes out of nowhere and is "arty" scene in comparison to the rest of the movie, and no-one talks about it after it shows up. Hence, it's a BLAM.

Matthew The Raven: In the graphic novel, and if I remember correctly, the movie, everything that happens to Dan afterwards is spurred on by that dream and the resulting feeling of impotence. It's not a BLAM.

Haven: Natter Zapping with a vengeance. You know what's great? All this was under Sphere of Destruction. Yeah. The discussion page is a pretty good place for discussions, right?

  • Arguably an improvement on the comic book, in which Veidt's solution seemed like a Deus ex Machina. I mean, the fact that telepathic powers existed in the story's universe wasn't even mentioned until Thirty Five Minutes Ago, except in easy-to-miss background items and in the between-chapter text.
    • However at the same time it's worse, since It makes sense to try and unify against an alien invasion, but to think you can beat god?
    • A god who specifically told the US he couldn't stop all the Russian missiles, much less the ones in both countries. Of course, he may have been lying, in which case they're both screwed anyway. Not to mention all the research the US has on the Doc, and all the research the USSR has doubtless been doing to take him down.
    • Not to mention, aliens who can traverse the stars are easily able to wipe the floor with a barely spacing civilization. A simple application of acceleration and kinetic kill and you could make the dinosaur extinction look weak.
    • This Troper read it not as "allying to defeat God" as much as "If we don't play nice, Dr. Manhattan is going to finish what he started."
    • And Snyder still retained Bubastis, the genetically modified Lynx. His presence only confused things for viewers unfamiliar with the comic.
    • I've read the graphic novel and her inclusion in the movie still makes no sense. No squid=NO KITTY!
    • I don't know if it's in the Theatrical cut, but in the Director's cut, during Veidt's first appearance, one of the reporters mentions their work in genetic engineering.
    • Veidt didn't have any friends, so he made one with SCIENCE! It's that simple!

AlsoSprachOdin: Regarding the Viewers Are Morons entry, its tone holds an aggression that sounds more at home on the Darth Wiki ("Without condemning and without condoning"...), and I don't know how many decades it's been since Redford made a western, but to regard steadily older film history as steadily more obscure is only sensible, so I would question whether or not viewers could be expected to know much about Robert Redford. And considering the exports, should non-American viewers not also be part of the equation?

  • Viewers Are Morons — well, at least younger viewers. In the original graphic novel, a throwaway line at the end by the editor of the National Frontiersman after dismissing his intern's, Seymour, suggestion that they run a piece on Robert Redford announcing plans to run for President in '88:
    "Who wants a cowboy actor in the White House?"
    • This is an obvious Take That! to Ronald Reagan, which readers in 1984 would've found hilarious. However, since Redford had not starred in a Western in decades, this joke is lost on most viewers who have never seen a movie older than they are, and instead, Seymour very plainly says that Reagan plans to run for President, turning this clever meta-reference into a lame gag you'd expect from Seth MacFarlane.

Cat22: Wow. Do you take ANY opportuntity to knock Seth MacFarlane even when it doesn't make sense? That was a bit Left-Fielder there, you could probably take that discussion to a better place. Anyway, back on topic, I meant to put this under "edit reason", but I click Save before I remembered to do so. I removed the spoiler tags from Who Shot JFK?. Not necessary, it's a one-shot deal in the opening credits, there is no need to hide it.