Discussion History Film / LesMiserables2012

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Whatever it is, if it isn\\\'t spelled out what exactly that it is and what it\\\'s purpose is, then it\\\'s just baseless Fan Wank.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So basically, everything has to have kindergarten-level writing, subtlety and implication aren’t real, and literary analysis is for obsessive nerds. You would probably lapse into a coma if you tried to watch Series/{{LOST}}.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Something that can be interpreted is opinionated and thus not fact.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Valtiel turning the valve (and all the other \\\"cycling\\\" imagery) is resurrection symbolism, it does not mean anything else. That\\\'s confirmed by both WordOfGod and in-game documents, ignoring that does not make it go away.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It doesn\\\'t matter if the series as a whole is designed to be interpreted rather than given outright.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So you\\\'re telling me that completely ignoring the franchise\\\'s very reason for existing, and considering it nothing more than a series of random, meaningless images, is a better alternative than using your brain and thinking?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The very reason the Book of Lost Memories exists is to put an end to this Fan Wank,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yeah, and guess what? It confirmed \\\'\\\'EVERYTHING\\\'\\\' that the audience had been saying, and everything that I’ve said thus far. So much for that whole “baseless fan wank” idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"but BLM it is not a factor in this discussion because the entire discussion is about whether Valtiel is important and identifiable enough to appear in this adaption instead of Pyramid Head.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

How convenient. Ignore everything that \\\'\\\'proves\\\'\\\' how important he is, and say there\\\'s nothing that shows how important he is.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Valtiel never appears to do anything in SH 3 and people need to read a guide book in order to know anything at all about him is proof enough that Valtiel isn\\\'t important enough.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s bull. Just because you need things spelled out to see their significance doesn\\\'t mean everyone did.

Do you really think Silent Hill 3 would\\\'ve been improved if the gameplay came to screeching halt every time something showed up, and a cutscene played to explain it? Only Franchise/MetalGear can get away with that, and even then it\\\'s still widely loathed.

The symbolism in Silent Hill 3 and especially 2 are \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' being analyzed and talked about \\\'\\\'today\\\'\\\'. There\\\'s nothing else like it in AAA gaming scene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"As far as I\\\'m concerned, Valtiel is some random monster that never attacks or does much of anything. I know all that Lost Memories says about him, but that is irrelevant, he never does anything in the game itself, thus he is unimportant.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Okay then, by that logic, what makes Pyramid Head so important? All he does is attack James and Maria, nothing particularly special about that, all the monsters do that. Nothing is spelled out for him either.

Oh, I forgot, [[RuleOfCool he\\\'s cool]] and [[WolverinePublicity recognizable]], so he gets a free pass.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"And how many times does Valtiel appear for long enough and in good enough view for the player have to actually give him that close a look? Unless they are recording their playing sessions and pause and advance it frame by frame, none.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

At first you might not notice it, I\\\'ll give you that; but it doesn\\\'t take long to get familiar with all the monsters, so pretty soon you\\\'re gonna realize that this guy doesn\\\'t look like all the others, even with his brief appearances.

Oh, and that scene where he\\\'s turning the valve? You can stay there as long as you want, and get as good of a look at him as you want. That very same scene is the first scene of the opening cinematic, so even if you skip it you\\\'re still gonna see that.

Weird how they had such a meaningless character be the first thing you see every time you start the game, isn\\\'t it? Even Pyramid Head didn\\\'t get that honor in 2, he doesn\\\'t even show up in 2\\\'s opening cutscene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"In the games that they appear in themselves, in other words the only part most fans are actually likely to have seen? No.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has a painting, and single line that say who he is, and the painting doesn\\\'t even really say much. Hardly a wealth of information.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Harry actually has something to do with the previous movie\\\'s story which Revelations continues while James doesn\\\'t might have something to do with it, [...] You are being hyperbolic again.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That is not hyperbole. That is the same damn thing that happened to Valtiel. I don\\\'t care if you don\\\'t think Valtiel was important or interesting, he was in Silent Hill 3 and he had a specific role, Pyramid Head was not and did not. That is not debatable.

Valtiel\\\'s role (the role that you think doesn\\\'t exist or matter) is mentioned in detail numerous times, only with Pyramid Head in his place, for no other reason than because he\\\'s recognizable/cooler (you said so yourself). I.E., the same damn thing as my hypothetical scenario.

And for your information, Harry had little-to-nothing to do with the first film. His role, surprise surprise, was hijacked by a completely different character, Cheryl\\\'s mother, who is supposed to be dead by this point in the story. Har- er, Christopher, just wandered around aimlessly the entire movie. You could\\\'ve removed his scenes entirely and nothing would\\\'ve changed except the run-time.

That just made me realize something. If consistency is so important to you, why don\\\'t you care about Rose not being in this movie? True, she shows up for a minute, to give a really sloppy, nonsensical explanation for Sharon getting home, but her absence is still rather glaring.

Her role as Sharon\\\'s sole parent is taken by Christopher, ironically who she stole it from in the first place. Rose was the protagonist of the first film, meaning the audience is more familiar with her than Christopher, so it would\\\'ve been far more effective, from an audience perspective, to have her be the kidnapping victim.

Anyway, back on topic...

Yes, Pyramid Head was in the first film, so sure, have him in the sequel, that\\\'s fine. But here\\\'s the thing: the first film NEVER MENTIONS ANYTHING about Valtiel\\\'s role, EVER. That\\\'s a retcon if there ever was one, and it was all Revelation\\\'s doing.

If it was so damn important to have ol\\\' Trigonometry Face, they could\\\'ve easily had both. If they kept both, they even could\\\'ve kept Pyramid Head\\\'s real purpose (e.g. guilt and punishment) intact. That\\\'s already what they were implying with the first film, until Revelation retconned that away.

If it was a budget issue that prevented that, here\\\'s an idea: don\\\'t do that laughably stupid, not to mention completely meaningless, spider-mannequin scene. Or include The Missionary, who used to represent abortion, but now is just another random monster. Oh and he\\\'s Claudia now, because apparently we\\\'re in the Legend of Zelda now.

Or just leave out Valtiel entirely. That would be fine, too. You don’t adapt Literature/{{Dune}}, remove Duncan and replace him with Thufir and say they’re the same character. It just doesn’t work that way.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and if Harry\\\'s fate at the end of the movie is any indication, if they continue THAT story as well with the next one they\\\'ll probably end up having to put Harry in James\\\' place.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That would be even more idiotic than everything else combined. Silent Hill 2 is the only game that is not connected to the mythos, tying it in is asinine. Not to mention that the circumstances are wildly different and completely incompatible: Mary is dead (always was, James murdered her), Rose isn’t. James was never really contacted, Christopher was. James is insane, Christopher isn’t.

And there\\\'s not going to be a third movie. The first film didn\\\'t break even, and the reception was average \\\'\\\'at best\\\'\\\'. Revelation had less than half the budget, \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t break even, and its reception has been absolutely horrific. It\\\'ll get a sequel around the same time Film/{{Doom}} does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Heather hallcinates Valtiel several times for only a few seconds\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

When? I don\\\'t remember that. Even so, Valtiel was not a hallucination, so that still doesn\\\'t constitute an appearance.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"His role was no more involved or siginificant than it was in SH 3.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I like how you think your opinion is the only important one.

\\\'I don\\\'t like this character, therefore he\\\'s insignificant and should be removed. I don\\\'t care what you intended and I don\\\'t believe in subtlety or symbolism.\\\'

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What, you\\\'d rather of had Valtiel run around kicking ass? \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, yeah, definitely. That\\\'s exactly what I\\\'ve been saying. Thank you for acknowledging that, and not at all ignoring everything that I\\\'ve been saying, thank you so much.

It\\\'s funny that you say that though, because that\\\'s pretty much what Pyramid Head did, in stark contrast to what he does in the game, where he is much more restrained, and thus more terrifying.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"So they can put in Pyramid Head and at the same time stop the whining of \\\"Valtiel was supposed to be in the movie!\\\" from people like you.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question: How in the hell would anyone have complained about Valtiel not being in this movie, BEFORE THE MOVIE\\\'S EVEN RELEASED?!

It\\\'s more like Valtiel was an important part of the mythos, so they had to acknowledge him somehow, but ultimately were forced to include Pyramid Head in his place to [[PanderingToTheBase pander to people like]] \\\'\\\'YOU\\\'\\\' that think Pyramid Head is some sort of freaking mascot of the franchise, even though he\\\'s only been in two games! One of which was little more than a cameo appearance.

As I said above, nothing was mentioned of Valtiel in the first film. They made that choice to turn Pyramid Head into a Valtiel expy. No one was forcing them. And no one was complaining about a lack of Valtiel because he was not in the first Silent Hill.

You know what I did see though? Lots of people complaining about Pyramid Head being in that movie because he wasn\\\'t in the game.

People are only complaining now because they completely screwed him over for the more marketable Pyramid Head. It would’ve been better to just leave him out entirely. They left out Dr. Kaufmann in the first film, they didn’t try and give Lisa his role.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, Revelations isn\\\'t an adaption of [=SH=] 3, it\\\'s a movie that takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. If it was an adaption of [=SH=] 3, you\\\'d be right, there wouldn\\\'t be Pyramid Head, there wouldn\\\'t be Douglas dying, it would be Harry, the cult wouldn\\\'t be out to destroy Heather they\\\'d be out to turn her into their God, and so forth. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be. Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

[[http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nathan-fillion-firefly-gif.gif Wow.]]

I\\\'ve heard some pretty pathetic defenses for bad adaptations, but this takes the cake. Seriously, bravo.

[[http://movies.about.com/od/interviews/a/adelaide-clemens-michael-bassett-silent-hill-revelation.htm This is an interview with Michael J. Bassett, the director:]]

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It\\\'s an adaptation of game number three - it\\\'s an adaptation of that story, the mythology and the ride that you go on\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

So what were you saying, again?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Revelations [...] takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, that \\\"little else\\\" being basic premise, set-pieces, and plot points. [[SarcasmMode Totally different from what an adaptation does]]. I suggest you go play Silent Hill 1 and 3, because you clearly have never played them, or at least not in such a long time that your memories of them have almost completely faded, and then watch the movies. Do that, and tell me again that the movies are not adaptations.

Completely destroying the source material does not mean it\\\'s no longer an adaptation. That is honestly some of the worst logic I\\\'ve ever heard. That\\\'s [[VideoGame/MassEffect3 Catalyst]]-level horrible logic.

What especially hilarious about this, is that the first movie fits that bill \\\'\\\'far\\\'\\\' better than Revelation does. Revelation has many, many more nods to its respective game than the first movie did to its game, but it\\\'s just done so \\\'\\\'poorly\\\'\\\' that it ends up the worse movie for it.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

I\\\'m still waiting for you to explain this. Even if I accept your \\\"it\\\'s not really an adaptation\\\" idea, it still doesn\\\'t make any sense, because he\\\'s even more meaningless in that context. It makes about as much sense as my earlier Darth Vader idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"you are acting under the assumption that Pyramid Head\\\'s role and purpose in the movieverse is even remotely related to the same in SH 2,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, silly me, assuming that an adaptation which contains a certain character, will give that character the same reason for being there.

Otherwise that he would have absolutely no reason for being there, and his appearance would be pointless {{Fanservice}} at best, and PanderingToTheBase at worst. And that couldn\\\'t possibly be it, could it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and it\\\'s directly stated in the movie that that\\\'s not the case anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Going by the first film, that’s not true. In fact he\\\'s barely acknowledged in the first film.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What you and others like you are doing is whining that Revelations isn\\\'t a scene for scene direct adaption of SH 3, when it isn\\\'t, wasn\\\'t intended to be, and shouldn\\\'t have to be. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No, we\\\'re not. At all. I\\\'ve already proven how your \\\"it\\\'s not an adaptation\\\" idea is a load of bull, and no one has ever said that it should be \\\"shot-for-shot\\\".

I was actually okay with the first film, it was a decent adaptation of the first game, it changed a lot, but ultimately the atmosphere and themes were intact.

All we- all I want is a movie that doesn\\\'t rip the source material to shreds, and then try and piece it back together with tape.

I\\\'d even be okay with your \\\"not-adaptation\\\" idea: a movie that takes the subtle, psychological and symbolic approach that the games do, but ultimately tells an original tale. That\\\'s pretty much what each subsequent game is anyway.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, it was an attempt to keep people like you quiet.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, I\\\'m sorry, I didn\\\'t realize that you were on the crew, or that you were clairvoyant as I noted above.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"They weren\\\'t going to stick some unimportant monster that few fans remember and even fewer actually care about\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I love how you think you speak for the entire fanbase.

I already said this quite a while ago, but it bears repeating:

If you feel a particular character didn’t get enough development, well now is your chance to fix that. Develop him, \\\'\\\'MAKE\\\'\\\' him memorable. That is the \\\'\\\'point\\\'\\\' of exposition and dialogue. That makes infinitely more sense than completely cutting that character out, and replacing him with an entirely different, completely unrelated character, who wasn\\\'t even in the same goddamn story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Over the one that all the fans know and all the fans are scared to hell by.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Honestly, I was laughing my ass off over how undignified they made Pyramid Head in this movie.

I don\\\'t know about you, but I found Pyramid Head far more terrifying when I was locked inside a tiny room with him, with only a few bullets and a wooden plank as my only defense, as he slowly approached me with that huge butcher knife.

Or when I was on the rooftop, and he spontaneously appeared behind me and threw me over the edge. Or when I was in the hallway desperately trying to outrun him, while he chased me with a spear.

But hey, that\\\'s just me. Maybe you find him \\\'\\\'menacingly turning a carousel\\\'\\\' to be the epitome of terror.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Whatever it is, if it isn\\\'t spelled out what exactly that it is and what it\\\'s purpose is, then it\\\'s just baseless Fan Wank.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So basically, everything has to have kindergarten-level writing, subtlety and implication aren’t real, and literary analysis is for obsessive nerds. You would probably lapse into a coma if you tried to watch Series/{{LOST}}.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Something that can be interpreted is opinionated and thus not fact.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Valtiel turning the valve (and all the other \\\"cycling\\\" imagery) is resurrection symbolism, it does not mean anything else. That\\\'s confirmed by both WordOfGod and in-game documents, ignoring that does not make it go away.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It doesn\\\'t matter if the series as a whole is designed to be interpreted rather than given outright.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So you\\\'re telling me that completely ignoring the franchise\\\'s very reason for existing, and considering it nothing more than a series of random, meaningless images, is a better alternative than using your brain and thinking?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The very reason the Book of Lost Memories exists is to put an end to this Fan Wank,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yeah, and guess what? It confirmed \\\'\\\'EVERYTHING\\\'\\\' that the audience had been saying, and everything that I’ve said thus far. So much for that whole “baseless fan wank” idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"but BLM it is not a factor in this discussion because the entire discussion is about whether Valtiel is important and identifiable enough to appear in this adaption instead of Pyramid Head.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

How convenient. Ignore everything that \\\'\\\'proves\\\'\\\' how important he is, and say there\\\'s nothing that shows how important he is.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Valtiel never appears to do anything in SH 3 and people need to read a guide book in order to know anything at all about him is proof enough that Valtiel isn\\\'t important enough.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s bull. Just because you need things spelled out to see their significance doesn\\\'t mean everyone did.

Do you really think Silent Hill 3 would\\\'ve been improved if the gameplay came to screeching halt every time something showed up, and a cutscene played to explain it? Only Franchise/MetalGear can get away with that, and even then its still widely loathed.

The symbolism in Silent Hill 3 and especially 2 are \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' being analyzed and talked about \\\'\\\'today\\\'\\\'. There\\\'s nothing else like it in AAA gaming scene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"As far as I\\\'m concerned, Valtiel is some random monster that never attacks or does much of anything. I know all that Lost Memories says about him, but that is irrelevant, he never does anything in the game itself, thus he is unimportant.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Okay then, by that logic, what makes Pyramid Head so important? All he does is attack James and Maria, nothing particularly special about that, all the monsters do that. Nothing is spelled out for him either.

Oh, I forgot, [[RuleOfCool he\\\'s cool]] and [[WolverinePublicity recognizable]], so he gets a free pass.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"And how many times does Valtiel appear for long enough and in good enough view for the player have to actually give him that close a look? Unless they are recording their playing sessions and pause and advance it frame by frame, none.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

At first you might not notice it, I\\\'ll give you that; but it doesn\\\'t take long to get familiar with all the monsters, so pretty soon you\\\'re gonna realize that this guy doesn\\\'t look like all the others, even with his brief appearances.

Oh, and that scene where he\\\'s turning the valve? You can stay there as long as you want, and get as good of a look at him as you want. That very same scene is the first scene of the opening cinematic, so even if you skip it you\\\'re still gonna see that.

Weird how they had such a meaningless character be the first thing you see every time you start the game, isn\\\'t it? Even Pyramid Head didn\\\'t get that honor in 2, he doesn\\\'t even show up in 2\\\'s opening cutscene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"In the games that they appear in themselves, in other words the only part most fans are actually likely to have seen? No.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has a painting, and single line that say who he is, and the painting doesn\\\'t even really say much. Hardly a wealth of information.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Harry actually has something to do with the previous movie\\\'s story which Revelations continues while James doesn\\\'t might have something to do with it, [...] You are being hyperbolic again.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That is not hyperbole. That is the same damn thing that happened to Valtiel. I don\\\'t care if you don\\\'t think Valtiel was important or interesting, he was in Silent Hill 3 and he had a specific role, Pyramid Head was not and did not. That is not debatable.

Valtiel\\\'s role (the role that you think doesn\\\'t exist or matter) is mentioned in detail numerous times, only with Pyramid Head in his place, for no other reason than because he\\\'s recognizable/cooler (you said so yourself). I.E., the same damn thing as my hypothetical scenario.

And for your information, Harry had little-to-nothing to do with the first film. His role, surprise surprise, was hijacked by a completely different character, Cheryl\\\'s mother, who is supposed to be dead by this point in the story. Har- er, Christopher, just wandered around aimlessly the entire movie. You could\\\'ve removed his scenes entirely and nothing would\\\'ve changed except the run-time.

That just made me realize something. If consistency is so important to you, why don\\\'t you care about Rose not being in this movie? True, she shows up for a minute, to give a really sloppy, nonsensical explanation for Sharon getting home, but her absence is still rather glaring.

Her role as Sharon\\\'s sole parent is taken by Christopher, ironically who she stole it from in the first place. Rose was the protagonist of the first film, meaning the audience is more familiar with her than Christopher, so it would\\\'ve been far more effective, from an audience perspective, to have her be the kidnapping victim.

Anyway, back on topic...

Yes, Pyramid Head was in the first film, so sure, have him in the sequel, that\\\'s fine. But here\\\'s the thing: the first film NEVER MENTIONS ANYTHING about Valtiel\\\'s role, EVER. That\\\'s a retcon if there ever was one, and it was all Revelation\\\'s doing.

If it was so damn important to have ol\\\' Trigonometry Face, they could\\\'ve easily had both. If they kept both, they even could\\\'ve kept Pyramid Head\\\'s real purpose (e.g. guilt and punishment) intact. That\\\'s already what they were implying with the first film, until Revelation retconned that away.

If it was a budget issue that prevented that, here\\\'s an idea: don\\\'t do that laughably stupid, not to mention completely meaningless, spider-mannequin scene. Or include The Missionary, who used to represent abortion, but now is just another random monster. Oh and he\\\'s Claudia now, because apparently we\\\'re in the Legend of Zelda now.

Or just leave out Valtiel entirely. That would be fine, too. You don’t adapt Literature/{{Dune}}, remove Duncan and replace him with Thufir and say they’re the same character. It just doesn’t work that way.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and if Harry\\\'s fate at the end of the movie is any indication, if they continue THAT story as well with the next one they\\\'ll probably end up having to put Harry in James\\\' place.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That would be even more idiotic than everything else combined. Silent Hill 2 is the only game that is not connected to the mythos, tying it in is asinine. Not to mention that the circumstances are wildly different and completely incompatible: Mary is dead (always was, James murdered her), Rose isn’t. James was never really contacted, Christopher was. James is insane, Christopher isn’t.

And there\\\'s not going to be a third movie. The first film didn\\\'t break even, and the reception was average \\\'\\\'at best\\\'\\\'. Revelation had less than half the budget, \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t break even, and its reception has been absolutely horrific. It\\\'ll get a sequel around the same time Film/{{Doom}} does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Heather hallcinates Valtiel several times for only a few seconds\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

When? I don\\\'t remember that. Even so, Valtiel was not a hallucination, so that still doesn\\\'t constitute an appearance.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"His role was no more involved or siginificant than it was in SH 3.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I like how you think your opinion is the only important one.

\\\'I don\\\'t like this character, therefore he\\\'s insignificant and should be removed. I don\\\'t care what you intended and I don\\\'t believe in subtlety or symbolism.\\\'

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What, you\\\'d rather of had Valtiel run around kicking ass? \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, yeah, definitely. That\\\'s exactly what I\\\'ve been saying. Thank you for acknowledging that, and not at all ignoring everything that I\\\'ve been saying, thank you so much.

It\\\'s funny that you say that though, because that\\\'s pretty much what Pyramid Head did, in stark contrast to what he does in the game, where he is much more restrained, and thus more terrifying.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"So they can put in Pyramid Head and at the same time stop the whining of \\\"Valtiel was supposed to be in the movie!\\\" from people like you.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question: How in the hell would anyone have complained about Valtiel not being in this movie, BEFORE THE MOVIE\\\'S EVEN RELEASED?!

It\\\'s more like Valtiel was an important part of the mythos, so they had to acknowledge him somehow, but ultimately were forced to include Pyramid Head in his place to [[PanderingToTheBase pander to people like]] \\\'\\\'YOU\\\'\\\' that think Pyramid Head is some sort of freaking mascot of the franchise, even though he\\\'s only been in two games! One of which was little more than a cameo appearance.

As I said above, nothing was mentioned of Valtiel in the first film. They made that choice to turn Pyramid Head into a Valtiel expy. No one was forcing them. And no one was complaining about a lack of Valtiel because he was not in the first Silent Hill.

You know what I did see though? Lots of people complaining about Pyramid Head being in that movie because he wasn\\\'t in the game.

People are only complaining now because they completely screwed him over for the more marketable Pyramid Head. It would’ve been better to just leave him out entirely. They left out Dr. Kaufmann in the first film, they didn’t try and give Lisa his role.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, Revelations isn\\\'t an adaption of [=SH=] 3, it\\\'s a movie that takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. If it was an adaption of [=SH=] 3, you\\\'d be right, there wouldn\\\'t be Pyramid Head, there wouldn\\\'t be Douglas dying, it would be Harry, the cult wouldn\\\'t be out to destroy Heather they\\\'d be out to turn her into their God, and so forth. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be. Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

[[http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nathan-fillion-firefly-gif.gif Wow.]]

I\\\'ve heard some pretty pathetic defenses for bad adaptations, but this takes the cake. Seriously, bravo.

[[http://movies.about.com/od/interviews/a/adelaide-clemens-michael-bassett-silent-hill-revelation.htm This is an interview with Michael J. Bassett, the director:]]

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It\\\'s an adaptation of game number three - it\\\'s an adaptation of that story, the mythology and the ride that you go on\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

So what were you saying, again?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Revelations [...] takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, that \\\"little else\\\" being basic premise, set-pieces, and plot points. [[SarcasmMode Totally different from what an adaptation does]]. I suggest you go play Silent Hill 1 and 3, because you clearly have never played them, or at least not in such a long time that your memories of them have almost completely faded, and then watch the movies. Do that, and tell me again that the movies are not adaptations.

Completely destroying the source material does not mean it\\\'s no longer an adaptation. That is honestly some of the worst logic I\\\'ve ever heard. That\\\'s [[VideoGame/MassEffect3 Catalyst]]-level horrible logic.

What especially hilarious about this, is that the first movie fits that bill \\\'\\\'far\\\'\\\' better than Revelation does. Revelation has many, many more nods to its respective game than the first movie did to its game, but it\\\'s just done so \\\'\\\'poorly\\\'\\\' that it ends up the worse movie for it.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

I\\\'m still waiting for you to explain this. Even if I accept your \\\"it\\\'s not really an adaptation\\\" idea, it still doesn\\\'t make any sense, because he\\\'s even more meaningless in that context. It makes about as much sense as my earlier Darth Vader idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"you are acting under the assumption that Pyramid Head\\\'s role and purpose in the movieverse is even remotely related to the same in SH 2,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, silly me, assuming that an adaptation which contains a certain character, will give that character the same reason for being there.

Otherwise that he would have absolutely no reason for being there, and his appearance would be pointless {{Fanservice}} at best, and PanderingToTheBase at worst. And that couldn\\\'t possibly be it, could it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and it\\\'s directly stated in the movie that that\\\'s not the case anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Going by the first film, that’s not true. In fact he\\\'s barely acknowledged in the first film.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What you and others like you are doing is whining that Revelations isn\\\'t a scene for scene direct adaption of SH 3, when it isn\\\'t, wasn\\\'t intended to be, and shouldn\\\'t have to be. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No, we\\\'re not. At all. I\\\'ve already proven how your \\\"it\\\'s not an adaptation\\\" idea is a load of bull, and no one has ever said that it should be \\\"shot-for-shot\\\".

I was actually okay with the first film, it was a decent adaptation of the first game, it changed a lot, but ultimately the atmosphere and themes were intact.

All we- all I want is a movie that doesn\\\'t rip the source material to shreds, and then try and piece it back together with tape.

I\\\'d even be okay with your \\\"not-adaptation\\\" idea: a movie that takes the subtle, psychological and symbolic approach that the games do, but ultimately tells an original tale. That\\\'s pretty much what each subsequent game is anyway.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, it was an attempt to keep people like you quiet.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, I\\\'m sorry, I didn\\\'t realize that you were on the crew, or that you were clairvoyant as I noted above.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"They weren\\\'t going to stick some unimportant monster that few fans remember and even fewer actually care about\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I love how you think you speak for the entire fanbase.

I already said this quite a while ago, but it bears repeating:

If you feel a particular character didn’t get enough development, well now is your chance to fix that. Develop him, \\\'\\\'MAKE\\\'\\\' him memorable. That is the \\\'\\\'point\\\'\\\' of exposition and dialogue. That makes infinitely more sense than completely cutting that character out, and replacing him with an entirely different, completely unrelated character, who wasn\\\'t even in the same goddamn story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Over the one that all the fans know and all the fans are scared to hell by.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Honestly, I was laughing my ass off over how undignified they made Pyramid Head in this movie.

I don\\\'t know about you, but I found Pyramid Head far more terrifying when I was locked inside a tiny room with him, with only a few bullets and a wooden plank as my only defense, as he slowly approached me with that huge butcher knife.

Or when I was on the rooftop, and he spontaneously appeared behind me and threw me over the edge. Or when I was in the hallway desperately trying to outrun him, while he chased me with a spear.

But hey, that\\\'s just me. Maybe you find him \\\'\\\'menacingly turning a carousel\\\'\\\' to be the epitome of terror.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Whatever it is, if it isn\\\'t spelled out what exactly that it is and what it\\\'s purpose is, then it\\\'s just baseless Fan Wank.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So basically, everything has to have kindergarten-level writing, subtlety and implication aren’t real, and literary analysis is for obsessive nerds. You would probably lapse into a coma if you tried to watch Series/{{LOST}}.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Something that can be interpreted is opinionated and thus not fact.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Valtiel turning the valve (and all the other \\\"cycling\\\" imagery) is resurrection symbolism, it does not mean anything else. That\\\'s confirmed by both WordOfGod and in-game documents, ignoring that does not make it go away.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It doesn\\\'t matter if the series as a whole is designed to be interpreted rather than given outright.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So you\\\'re telling me that completely ignoring the franchise\\\'s very reason for existing, and considering it nothing more than a series of random, meaningless images, is a better alternative than using your brain and thinking?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The very reason the Book of Lost Memories exists is to put an end to this Fan Wank,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yeah, and guess what? It confirmed \\\'\\\'EVERYTHING\\\'\\\' that the audience had been saying, and everything that I’ve said thus far. So much for that whole “baseless fan wank” idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"but BLM it is not a factor in this discussion because the entire discussion is about whether Valtiel is important and identifiable enough to appear in this adaption instead of Pyramid Head.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

How convenient. Ignore everything that \\\'\\\'proves\\\'\\\' how important he is, and say there\\\'s nothing that shows how important he is.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Valtiel never appears to do anything in SH 3 and people need to read a guide book in order to know anything at all about him is proof enough that Valtiel isn\\\'t important enough.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s bull. Just because you need things spelled out to see their significance doesn\\\'t mean everyone did.

Do you really think Silent Hill 3 would\\\'ve been improved if the gameplay came to screeching halt every time something showed up, and a cutscene played to explain it? Only Franchise/MetalGear can get away with that, and even then its still widely loathed.

The symbolism in Silent Hill 3 and especially 2 are \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' being analyzed and talked about \\\'\\\'today\\\'\\\'. There\\\'s nothing else like it in AAA gaming scene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"As far as I\\\'m concerned, Valtiel is some random monster that never attacks or does much of anything. I know all that Lost Memories says about him, but that is irrelevant, he never does anything in the game itself, thus he is unimportant.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Okay then, by that logic, what makes Pyramid Head so important? All he does is attack James and Maria, nothing particularly special about that, all the monsters do that. Nothing is spelled out for him either.

Oh, I forgot, [[RuleOfCool he\\\'s cool]] and [[WolverinePublicity recognizable]], so he gets a free pass.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"And how many times does Valtiel appear for long enough and in good enough view for the player have to actually give him that close a look? Unless they are recording their playing sessions and pause and advance it frame by frame, none.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

At first you might not notice it, I\\\'ll give you that; but it doesn\\\'t take long to get familiar with all the monsters, so pretty soon you\\\'re gonna realize that this guy doesn\\\'t look like all the others, even with his brief appearances.

Oh, and that scene where he\\\'s turning the valve? You can stay there as long as you want, and get as good of a look at him as you want. That very same scene is the first scene of the opening cinematic, so even if you skip it you\\\'re still gonna see that.

Weird how they had such a meaningless character be the first thing you see every time you start the game, isn\\\'t it? Even Pyramid Head didn\\\'t get that honor in 2, he doesn\\\'t even show up in 2\\\'s opening cutscene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"In the games that they appear in themselves, in other words the only part most fans are actually likely to have seen? No.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has a painting, and single line that say who he is, and the painting doesn\\\'t even really say much. Hardly a wealth of information.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Harry actually has something to do with the previous movie\\\'s story which Revelations continues while James doesn\\\'t might have something to do with it, [...] You are being hyperbolic again.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That is not hyperbole. That is the same damn thing that happened to Valtiel. I don\\\'t care if you don\\\'t think Valtiel was important or interesting, he was in Silent Hill 3 and he had a specific role, Pyramid Head was not and did not. That is not debatable.

Valtiel\\\'s role (the role that you think doesn\\\'t exist or matter) is mentioned in detail numerous times, only with Pyramid Head in his place, for no other reason than because he\\\'s recognizable/cooler (you said so yourself). I.E., the same damn thing as my hypothetical scenario.

And for your information, Harry had little-to-nothing to do with the first film. His role, surprise surprise, was hijacked by a completely different character, Cheryl\\\'s mother, who is supposed to be dead by this point in the story. Har- er, Christopher, just wandered around aimlessly the entire movie. You could\\\'ve removed his scenes entirely and nothing would\\\'ve changed except the run-time.

That just made me realize something. If consistency is so important to you, why don\\\'t you care about Rose not being in this movie? True, she shows up for a minute, to give a really sloppy, nonsensical explanation for Sharon getting home, but her absence is still rather glaring.

Her role as Sharon\\\'s sole parent is taken by Christopher, ironically who she stole it from in the first place. Rose was the protagonist of the first film, meaning the audience is more familiar with her than Christopher, so it would\\\'ve been far more effective, from an audience perspective, to have her be the kidnapping victim.

Anyway, back on topic...

Yes, Pyramid Head was in the first film, so sure, have him in the sequel, that\\\'s fine. But here\\\'s the thing: the first film NEVER MENTIONS ANYTHING about Valtiel\\\'s role, EVER. That\\\'s a retcon if there ever was one, and it was all Revelation\\\'s doing.

If it was so damn important to have ol\\\' Trigonometry Face, they could\\\'ve easily had both. If they kept both, they even could\\\'ve kept Pyramid Head\\\'s real purpose (e.g. guilt and punishment) intact. That\\\'s already what they were implying with the first film, until Revelation retconned that away.

If it was a budget issue that prevented that, here\\\'s an idea: don\\\'t do that laughably stupid, not to mention completely meaningless, spider-mannequin scene. Or include The Missionary, who used to represent abortion, but now is just another random monster. Oh and he\\\'s Claudia now, because apparently we\\\'re in the Legend of Zelda now.

Or just leave out Valtiel entirely. That would be fine, too. You don’t adapt Literature/{{Dune}}, remove Duncan and replace him with Thufir and say they’re the same character. It just doesn’t work that way.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and if Harry\\\'s fate at the end of the movie is any indication, if they continue THAT story as well with the next one they\\\'ll probably end up having to put Harry in James\\\' place.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That would be even more idiotic than everything else combined. Silent Hill 2 is the only game that is not connected to the mythos, tying it in is asinine. Not to mention that the circumstances are wildly different and completely incompatible: Mary is dead (always was, James murdered her), Rose isn’t. James was never really contacted, Christopher was. James is insane, Christopher isn’t.

And there\\\'s not going to be a third movie. The first film didn\\\'t break even, and the reception was average \\\'\\\'at best\\\'\\\'. Revelation had less than half the budget, \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t break even, and its reception has been absolutely horrific. It\\\'ll get a sequel around the same time Film/{{Doom}} does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Heather hallcinates Valtiel several times for only a few seconds\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

When? I don\\\'t remember that. Even so, Valtiel was not a hallucination, so that still doesn\\\'t constitute an appearance.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"His role was no more involved or siginificant than it was in SH 3.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I like how you think your opinion is the only important one.

\\\'I don\\\'t like this character, therefore he\\\'s insignificant and should be removed. I don\\\'t care what you intended and I don\\\'t believe in subtlety or symbolism.\\\'

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What, you\\\'d rather of had Valtiel run around kicking ass? \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, yeah, definitely. That\\\'s exactly what I\\\'ve been saying. Thank you for acknowledging that, and not at all ignoring everything that I\\\'ve been saying, thank you so much.

It\\\'s funny that you say that though, because that\\\'s pretty much what Pyramid Head did, in stark contrast to what he does in the game, where he is much more restrained, and thus more terrifying.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"So they can put in Pyramid Head and at the same time stop the whining of \\\"Valtiel was supposed to be in the movie!\\\" from people like you.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question: How in the hell would anyone have complained about Valtiel not being in this movie, BEFORE THE MOVIE\\\'S EVEN RELEASED?!

It\\\'s more like Valtiel was an important part of the mythos, so they had to acknowledge him somehow, but ultimately were forced to include Pyramid Head in his place to [[PanderingToTheBase pander to people like]] \\\'\\\'YOU\\\'\\\' that get confused if Pyramid Head isn’t involved.

As I said above, nothing was mentioned of Valtiel in the first film. They made that choice to turn Pyramid Head into a Valtiel expy. No one was forcing them. And no one was complaining about a lack of Valtiel because he was not in the first Silent Hill.

You know what I did see though? Lots of people complaining about Pyramid Head being in that movie because he wasn\\\'t in the game.

People are only complaining now because they completely screwed him over for the more marketable Pyramid Head. It would’ve been better to just leave him out entirely. They left out Dr. Kaufmann in the first film, they didn’t try and give Lisa his role.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, Revelations isn\\\'t an adaption of [=SH=] 3, it\\\'s a movie that takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. If it was an adaption of [=SH=] 3, you\\\'d be right, there wouldn\\\'t be Pyramid Head, there wouldn\\\'t be Douglas dying, it would be Harry, the cult wouldn\\\'t be out to destroy Heather they\\\'d be out to turn her into their God, and so forth. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be. Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

[[http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nathan-fillion-firefly-gif.gif Wow.]]

I\\\'ve heard some pretty pathetic defenses for bad adaptations, but this takes the cake. Seriously, bravo.

[[http://movies.about.com/od/interviews/a/adelaide-clemens-michael-bassett-silent-hill-revelation.htm This is an interview with Michael J. Bassett, the director:]]

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It\\\'s an adaptation of game number three - it\\\'s an adaptation of that story, the mythology and the ride that you go on\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

So what were you saying, again?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Revelations [...] takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, that \\\"little else\\\" being basic premise, set-pieces, and plot points. [[SarcasmMode Totally different from what an adaptation does]]. I suggest you go play Silent Hill 1 and 3, because you clearly have never played them, or at least not in such a long time that your memories of them have almost completely faded, and then watch the movies. Do that, and tell me again that the movies are not adaptations.

Completely destroying the source material does not mean it\\\'s no longer an adaptation. That is honestly some of the worst logic I\\\'ve ever heard. That\\\'s [[VideoGame/MassEffect3 Catalyst]]-level horrible logic.

What especially hilarious about this, is that the first movie fits that bill \\\'\\\'far\\\'\\\' better than Revelation does. Revelation has many, many more nods to its respective game than the first movie did to its game, but it\\\'s just done so \\\'\\\'poorly\\\'\\\' that it ends up the worse movie for it.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

I\\\'m still waiting for you to explain this. Even if I accept your \\\"it\\\'s not really an adaptation\\\" idea, it still doesn\\\'t make any sense, because he\\\'s even more meaningless in that context. It makes about as much sense as my earlier Darth Vader idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"you are acting under the assumption that Pyramid Head\\\'s role and purpose in the movieverse is even remotely related to the same in SH 2,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, silly me, assuming that an adaptation which contains a certain character, will give that character the same reason for being there.

Otherwise that he would have absolutely no reason for being there, and his appearance would be pointless {{Fanservice}} at best, and PanderingToTheBase at worst. And that couldn\\\'t possibly be it, could it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and it\\\'s directly stated in the movie that that\\\'s not the case anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Going just by the first film, that’s not true. In fact he\\\'s barely acknowledged in the first film.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What you and others like you are doing is whining that Revelations isn\\\'t a scene for scene direct adaption of SH 3, when it isn\\\'t, wasn\\\'t intended to be, and shouldn\\\'t have to be. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No, we\\\'re not. At all. I\\\'ve already proven how your \\\"it\\\'s not an adaptation\\\" idea is a load of bull, and no one has ever said that it should be \\\"shot-for-shot\\\".

I was actually okay with the first film, it was a decent adaptation of the first game, it changed a lot, but ultimately the atmosphere and themes were intact.

All we- all I want is a movie that doesn\\\'t rip the source material to shreds, and then try and piece it back together with tape.

I\\\'d even be okay with your \\\"not-adaptation\\\" idea: a movie that takes the subtle, psychological and symbolic approach that the games do, but ultimately tells an original tale. That\\\'s pretty much what each subsequent game is anyway.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, it was an attempt to keep people like you quiet.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, I\\\'m sorry, I didn\\\'t realize that you were on the crew, or that you were clairvoyant as I noted above.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"They weren\\\'t going to stick some unimportant monster that few fans remember and even fewer actually care about\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I love how you think you speak for the entire fanbase.

I already said this quite a while ago, but it bears repeating:

If you feel a particular character didn’t get enough development, well now is your chance to fix that. Develop him, \\\'\\\'MAKE\\\'\\\' him memorable. That is the \\\'\\\'point\\\'\\\' of exposition and dialogue. That makes infinitely more sense than completely cutting that character out, and replacing him with an entirely different, completely unrelated character, who wasn\\\'t even in the same goddamn story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Over the one that all the fans know and all the fans are scared to hell by.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Honestly, I was laughing my ass off over how undignified they made Pyramid Head in this movie.

I don\\\'t know about you, but I found Pyramid Head far more terrifying when I was locked inside a tiny room with him, with only a few bullets and a wooden plank as my only defense, as he slowly approached me with that huge butcher knife.

Or when I was on the rooftop, and he spontaneously appeared behind me and threw me over the edge. Or when I was in the hallway desperately trying to outrun him, while he chased me with a spear.

But hey, that\\\'s just me. Maybe you find him \\\'\\\'menacingly turning a carousel\\\'\\\' to be the epitome of terror.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Whatever it is, if it isn\\\'t spelled out what exactly that it is and what it\\\'s purpose is, then it\\\'s just baseless Fan Wank.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So basically, everything has to have kindergarten-level writing, subtlety and implication aren’t real, and literary analysis is for obsessive nerds. You would probably lapse into a coma if you tried to watch Series/{{LOST}}.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Something that can be interpreted is opinionated and thus not fact.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Valtiel turning the valve (and all the other \\\"cycling\\\" imagery) is resurrection symbolism, it does not mean anything else. That\\\'s confirmed by both WordOfGod and in-game documents, ignoring that does not make it go away.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It doesn\\\'t matter if the series as a whole is designed to be interpreted rather than given outright.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So you\\\'re telling me that completely ignoring the franchise\\\'s very reason for existing, and considering it nothing more than a series of random, meaningless images, is a better alternative than using your brain and thinking?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The very reason the Book of Lost Memories exists is to put an end to this Fan Wank,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yeah, and guess what? It confirmed \\\'\\\'EVERYTHING\\\'\\\' that the audience had been saying, and everything that I’ve said thus far. So much for that whole “baseless fan wank” idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"but BLM it is not a factor in this discussion because the entire discussion is about whether Valtiel is important and identifiable enough to appear in this adaption instead of Pyramid Head.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

How convenient. Ignore everything that \\\'\\\'proves\\\'\\\' how important he is, and say there\\\'s nothing that shows how important he is.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Valtiel never appears to do anything in SH 3 and people need to read a guide book in order to know anything at all about him is proof enough that Valtiel isn\\\'t important enough.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s bull. Just because you need things spelled out to see their significance doesn\\\'t mean everyone did.

Do you really think Silent Hill 3 would\\\'ve been improved if the gameplay came to screeching halt every time something showed up, and a cutscene played to explain it? Only Franchise/MetalGear can get away with that, and even then its still widely loathed.

The symbolism in Silent Hill 3 and especially 2 are \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' being analyzed and talked about \\\'\\\'today\\\'\\\'. There\\\'s nothing else like it in AAA gaming scene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"As far as I\\\'m concerned, Valtiel is some random monster that never attacks or does much of anything. I know all that Lost Memories says about him, but that is irrelevant, he never does anything in the game itself, thus he is unimportant.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Okay then, by that logic, what makes Pyramid Head so important? All he does is attack James and Maria, nothing particularly special about that, all the monsters do that. Nothing is spelled out for him either.

Oh, I forgot, [[RuleOfCool he\\\'s cool]] and [[WolverinePublicity recognizable]], so he gets a free pass.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"And how many times does Valtiel appear for long enough and in good enough view for the player have to actually give him that close a look? Unless they are recording their playing sessions and pause and advance it frame by frame, none.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

At first you might not notice it, I\\\'ll give you that; but it doesn\\\'t take long to get familiar with all the monsters, so pretty soon you\\\'re gonna realize that this guy doesn\\\'t look like all the others, even with his brief appearances.

Oh, and that scene where he\\\'s turning the valve? You can stay there as long as you want, and get as good of a look at him as you want. That very same scene is the first scene of the opening cinematic, so even if you skip it you\\\'re still gonna see that.

Weird how they had such a meaningless character be the first thing you see every time you start the game, isn\\\'t it? Even Pyramid Head didn\\\'t get that honor in 2, he doesn\\\'t even show up in 2\\\'s opening cutscene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"In the games that they appear in themselves, in other words the only part most fans are actually likely to have seen? No.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has a painting, and single line that say who he is, and the painting doesn\\\'t even really say much. Hardly a wealth of information.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Harry actually has something to do with the previous movie\\\'s story which Revelations continues while James doesn\\\'t might have something to do with it, [...] You are being hyperbolic again.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That is not hyperbole. That is the same damn thing that happened to Valtiel. I don\\\'t care if you don\\\'t think Valtiel was important or interesting, he was in Silent Hill 3 and he had a specific role, Pyramid Head was not and did not. That is not debatable.

Valtiel\\\'s role (the role that you think doesn\\\'t exist or matter) is mentioned in detail numerous times, only with Pyramid Head in his place, for no other reason than because he\\\'s recognizable/cooler (you said so yourself). I.E., the same damn thing as my hypothetical scenario.

And for your information, Harry had little-to-nothing to do with the first film. His role, surprise surprise, was hijacked by a completely different character, Cheryl\\\'s mother, who is supposed to be dead by this point in the story. Har- er, Christopher, just wandered around aimlessly the entire movie. You could\\\'ve removed his scenes entirely and nothing would\\\'ve changed except the run-time.

That just made me realize something. If consistency is so important to you, why don\\\'t you care about Rose not being in this movie? True, she shows up for a minute, to give a really sloppy, nonsensical explanation for Sharon getting home, but her absence is still rather glaring.

Her role as Sharon\\\'s sole parent is taken by Christopher, ironically who she stole it from in the first place. Rose was the protagonist of the first film, meaning the audience is more familiar with her than Christopher, so it would\\\'ve been far more effective, from an audience perspective, to have her be the kidnapping victim.

Anyway, back on topic...

Yes, Pyramid Head was in the first film, so sure, have him in the sequel, that\\\'s fine. But here\\\'s the thing: the first film NEVER MENTIONS ANYTHING about Valtiel\\\'s role, EVER. That\\\'s a retcon if there ever was one, and it was all Revelation\\\'s doing.

If it was so damn important to have ol\\\' Trigonometry Face, they could\\\'ve easily had both. If they kept both, they even could\\\'ve kept Pyramid Head\\\'s real purpose (e.g. guilt and punishment) intact. That\\\'s already what they were implying with the first film, until Revelation retconned that away.

If it was a budget issue that prevented that, here\\\'s an idea: don\\\'t do that laughably stupid, not to mention completely meaningless, spider-mannequin scene. Or include The Missionary, who used to represent abortion, but now is just another random monster. Oh and he\\\'s Claudia now, because apparently we\\\'re in the Legend of Zelda now.

Or just leave out Valtiel entirely. That would be fine, too. You don’t adapt Literature/{{Dune}}, remove Duncan and replace him with Thufir and say they’re the same character. It just doesn’t work that way.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and if Harry\\\'s fate at the end of the movie is any indication, if they continue THAT story as well with the next one they\\\'ll probably end up having to put Harry in James\\\' place.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That would be even more idiotic than everything else combined. Silent Hill 2 is the only game that is not connected to the mythos, tying it in is asinine. Not to mention that the circumstances are wildly different and completely incompatible: Mary is dead (always was, James murdered her), Rose isn’t. James was never really contacted, Christopher was. James is insane, Christopher isn’t.

And there\\\'s not going to be a third movie. The first film didn\\\'t break even, and the reception was average \\\'\\\'at best\\\'\\\'. Revelation had less than half the budget, \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t break even, and its reception has been absolutely horrific. It\\\'ll get a sequel around the same time Film/{{Doom}} does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Heather hallcinates Valtiel several times for only a few seconds\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

When? I don\\\'t remember that. Even so, Valtiel was not a hallucination, so that still doesn\\\'t constitute an appearance.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"His role was no more involved or siginificant than it was in SH 3.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I like how you think your opinion is the only important one.

\\\'I don\\\'t like this character, therefore he\\\'s insignificant and should be removed. I don\\\'t care what you intended and I don\\\'t believe in subtlety or symbolism.\\\'

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What, you\\\'d rather of had Valtiel run around kicking ass? \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, yeah, definitely. That\\\'s exactly what I\\\'ve been saying. Thank you for acknowledging that, and not at all ignoring everything that I\\\'ve been saying, thank you so much.

It\\\'s funny that you say that though, because that\\\'s pretty much what Pyramid Head did, in stark contrast to what he does in the game, where he is much more restrained, and thus more terrifying.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"So they can put in Pyramid Head and at the same time stop the whining of \\\"Valtiel was supposed to be in the movie!\\\" from people like you.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question: How in the hell would anyone have complained about Valtiel not being in this movie, BEFORE THE MOVIE\\\'S EVEN RELEASED?!

It\\\'s more like Valtiel was an important part of the mythos, so they had to acknowledge him somehow, but ultimately were forced to include Pyramid Head in his place to [[PanderingToTheBase pander to people like]] \\\'\\\'YOU\\\'\\\' that get confused if Pyramid Head isn’t involved.

As I said above, nothing was mentioned of Valtiel in the first film. They made that choice to turn Pyramid Head into a Valtiel expy. No one was forcing them. And no one was complaining about a lack of Valtiel because he was not in the first Silent Hill.

You know what I did see though? Lots of people complaining about Pyramid Head being in that movie because he wasn\\\'t in the game.

People are only complaining now because they completely screwed him over for the more marketable Pyramid Head. It would’ve been better to just leave him out entirely. They left out Dr. Kaufmann in the first film, they didn’t try and give Lisa his role.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, Revelations isn\\\'t an adaption of [=SH=] 3, it\\\'s a movie that takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. If it was an adaption of [=SH=] 3, you\\\'d be right, there wouldn\\\'t be Pyramid Head, there wouldn\\\'t be Douglas dying, it would be Harry, the cult wouldn\\\'t be out to destroy Heather they\\\'d be out to turn her into their God, and so forth. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be. Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

[[http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nathan-fillion-firefly-gif.gif Wow.]]

I\\\'ve heard some pretty pathetic defenses for bad adaptations, but this takes the cake. Seriously, bravo.

[[http://movies.about.com/od/interviews/a/adelaide-clemens-michael-bassett-silent-hill-revelation.htm This is an interview with Michael J. Bassett, the director:]]

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It\\\'s an adaptation of game number three - it\\\'s an adaptation of that story, the mythology and the ride that you go on\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

So what were you saying, again?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Revelations [...] takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, that \\\"little else\\\" being basic premise, set-pieces, and plot points. [[SarcasmMode Totally different from what an adaptation does]]. I suggest you go play Silent Hill 1 and 3, because you clearly have never played them, or at least not in such a long time that your memories of them have almost completely faded, and then watch the movies. Do that, and tell me again that the movies are not adaptations.

What especially hilarious about this, is that the first movie fits that bill \\\'\\\'far\\\'\\\' better than Revelation does. Revelation has many, many more nods to its respective game than the first movie did to its game, but it\\\'s just done so \\\'\\\'poorly\\\'\\\' that it ends up the worse movie for it.

Completely destroying the source material does not mean it\\\'s no longer an adaptation. That is honestly some of the worst logic I\\\'ve ever heard. That\\\'s [[VideoGame/MassEffect3 Catalyst]]-level horrible logic.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

I\\\'m still waiting for you to explain this. Even if I accept your \\\"it\\\'s not really an adaptation\\\" idea, it still doesn\\\'t make any sense, because he\\\'s even more meaningless in that context. It makes about as much sense as my earlier Darth Vader idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"you are acting under the assumption that Pyramid Head\\\'s role and purpose in the movieverse is even remotely related to the same in SH 2,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, silly me, assuming that an adaptation which contains a certain character, will give that character the same reason for being there.

Otherwise that he would have absolutely no reason for being there, and his appearance would be pointless {{Fanservice}} at best, and PanderingToTheBase at worst. And that couldn\\\'t possibly be it, could it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and it\\\'s directly stated in the movie that that\\\'s not the case anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Going just by the first film, that’s not true. In fact he\\\'s barely acknowledged in the first film.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What you and others like you are doing is whining that Revelations isn\\\'t a scene for scene direct adaption of SH 3, when it isn\\\'t, wasn\\\'t intended to be, and shouldn\\\'t have to be. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No, we\\\'re not. At all. I\\\'ve already proven how your \\\"it\\\'s not an adaptation\\\" idea is a load of bull, and no one has ever said that it should be \\\"shot-for-shot\\\".

I was actually okay with the first film, it was a decent adaptation of the first game, it changed a lot, but ultimately the atmosphere and themes were intact.

All we- all I want is a movie that doesn\\\'t rip the source material to shreds, and then try and piece it back together with tape.

I\\\'d even be okay with your \\\"not-adaptation\\\" idea: a movie that takes the subtle, psychological and symbolic approach that the games do, but ultimately tells an original tale. That\\\'s pretty much what each subsequent game is anyway.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, it was an attempt to keep people like you quiet.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, I\\\'m sorry, I didn\\\'t realize that you were on the crew, or that you were clairvoyant as I noted above.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"They weren\\\'t going to stick some unimportant monster that few fans remember and even fewer actually care about\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I love how you think you speak for the entire fanbase.

I already said this quite a while ago, but it bears repeating:

If you feel a particular character didn’t get enough development, well now is your chance to fix that. Develop him, \\\'\\\'MAKE\\\'\\\' him memorable. That is the \\\'\\\'point\\\'\\\' of exposition and dialogue. That makes infinitely more sense than completely cutting that character out, and replacing him with an entirely different, completely unrelated character, who wasn\\\'t even in the same goddamn story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Over the one that all the fans know and all the fans are scared to hell by.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Honestly, I was laughing my ass off over how undignified they made Pyramid Head in this movie.

I don\\\'t know about you, but I found Pyramid Head far more terrifying when I was locked inside a tiny room with him, with only a few bullets and a wooden plank as my only defense, as he slowly approached me with that huge butcher knife.

Or when I was on the rooftop, and he spontaneously appeared behind me and threw me over the edge. Or when I was in the hallway desperately trying to outrun him, while he chased me with a spear.

But hey, that\\\'s just me. Maybe you find him \\\'\\\'menacingly turning a carousel\\\'\\\' to be the epitome of terror.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Whatever it is, if it isn\\\'t spelled out what exactly that it is and what it\\\'s purpose is, then it\\\'s just baseless Fan Wank.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So basically, everything has to have kindergarten-level writing, subtlety and implication aren’t real, and literary analysis is for obsessive nerds. You would probably lapse into a coma if you tried to watch Series/{{LOST}}.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Something that can be interpreted is opinionated and thus not fact.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Valtiel turning the valve (and all the other \\\"cycling\\\" imagery) is resurrection symbolism, it does not mean anything else. That\\\'s confirmed by both WordOfGod and in-game documents, ignoring that does not make it go away.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It doesn\\\'t matter if the series as a whole is designed to be interpreted rather than given outright.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So you\\\'re telling me that completely ignoring the franchise\\\'s very reason for existing, and considering it nothing more than a series of random, meaningless images, is a better alternative than using your brain and thinking?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The very reason the Book of Lost Memories exists is to put an end to this Fan Wank,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yeah, and guess what? It confirmed \\\'\\\'EVERYTHING\\\'\\\' that the audience had been saying, and everything that I’ve said thus far. So much for that whole “baseless fan wank” idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"but BLM it is not a factor in this discussion because the entire discussion is about whether Valtiel is important and identifiable enough to appear in this adaption instead of Pyramid Head.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

How convenient. Ignore everything that \\\'\\\'proves\\\'\\\' how important he is, and say there\\\'s nothing that shows how important he is.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Valtiel never appears to do anything in SH 3 and people need to read a guide book in order to know anything at all about him is proof enough that Valtiel isn\\\'t important enough.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s bull. Just because you need things spelled out to see their significance doesn\\\'t mean everyone did.

Do you really think Silent Hill 3 would\\\'ve been improved if the gameplay came to screeching halt every time something showed up, and a cutscene played to explain it? Only Franchise/MetalGear can get away with that, and even then its still widely loathed.

The symbolism in Silent Hill 3 and especially 2 are \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' being analyzed and talked about \\\'\\\'today\\\'\\\'. There\\\'s nothing else like it in AAA gaming scene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"As far as I\\\'m concerned, Valtiel is some random monster that never attacks or does much of anything. I know all that Lost Memories says about him, but that is irrelevant, he never does anything in the game itself, thus he is unimportant.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Okay then, by that logic, what makes Pyramid Head so important? All he does is attack James and Maria, nothing particularly special about that, all the monsters do that. Nothing is spelled out for him either.

Oh, I forgot, [[RuleOfCool he\\\'s cool]] and [[WolverinePublicity recognizable]], so he gets a free pass.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"And how many times does Valtiel appear for long enough and in good enough view for the player have to actually give him that close a look? Unless they are recording their playing sessions and pause and advance it frame by frame, none.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

At first you might not notice it, I\\\'ll give you that; but it doesn\\\'t take long to get familiar with all the monsters, so pretty soon you\\\'re gonna realize that this guy doesn\\\'t look like all the others, even with his brief appearances.

Oh, and that scene where he\\\'s turning the valve? You can stay there as long as you want, and get as good of a look at him as you want. That very same scene is the first scene of the opening cinematic, so even if you skip it you\\\'re still gonna see that.

Weird how they had such a meaningless character be the first thing you see every time you start the game, isn\\\'t it? Even Pyramid Head didn\\\'t get that honor in 2, he doesn\\\'t even show up in 2\\\'s opening cutscene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"In the games that they appear in themselves, in other words the only part most fans are actually likely to have seen? No.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has a painting, and single line that say who he is, and the painting doesn\\\'t even really say much. Hardly a wealth of information.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Harry actually has something to do with the previous movie\\\'s story which Revelations continues while James doesn\\\'t might have something to do with it, [...] You are being hyperbolic again.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That is not hyperbole. That is the same damn thing that happened to Valtiel. I don\\\'t care if you don\\\'t think Valtiel was important or interesting, he was in Silent Hill 3 and he had a specific role, Pyramid Head was not and did not. That is not debatable.

Valtiel\\\'s role (the role that you think doesn\\\'t exist or matter) is mentioned in detail numerous times, only with Pyramid Head in his place, for no other reason than because he\\\'s recognizable/cooler (you said so yourself). I.E., the same damn thing as my hypothetical scenario.

And for your information, Harry had little-to-nothing to do with the first film. His role, surprise surprise, was hijacked by a completely different character, Cheryl\\\'s mother, who is supposed to be dead by this point in the story. Har- er, Christopher, just wandered around aimlessly the entire movie. You could\\\'ve removed his scenes entirely and nothing would\\\'ve changed except the run-time.

That just made me realize something. If consistency is so important to you, why don\\\'t you care about Rose not being in this movie? True, she shows up for a minute, to give a really sloppy, nonsensical explanation for Sharon getting home, but her absence is still rather glaring.

Her role as Sharon\\\'s sole parent is taken by Christopher, ironically who she stole it from in the first place. Rose was the protagonist of the first film, meaning the audience is more familiar with her than Christopher, so it would\\\'ve been far more effective, from an audience perspective, to have her be the kidnapping victim.

Anyway, back on topic...

Yes, Pyramid Head was in the first film, so sure, have him in the sequel, that\\\'s fine. But here\\\'s the thing: the first film NEVER MENTIONS ANYTHING about Valtiel\\\'s role, EVER. That\\\'s a retcon if there ever was one, and it was all Revelation\\\'s doing.

If it was so damn important to have ol\\\' Trigonometry Face, they could\\\'ve easily had both. If they kept both, they even could\\\'ve kept Pyramid Head\\\'s real purpose (e.g. guilt and punishment) intact. That\\\'s already what they were implying with the first film, until Revelation retconned that away.

If it was a budget issue that prevented that, here\\\'s an idea: don\\\'t do that laughably stupid, not to mention completely meaningless, spider-mannequin scene. Or include The Missionary, who used to represent abortion, but now is just another random monster. Oh and he\\\'s Claudia now, because apparently we\\\'re in the Legend of Zelda now.

Or just leave out Valtiel entirely. That would be fine, too. You don’t adapt Literature/{{Dune}}, remove Duncan and replace him with Thufir and say they’re the same character. It just doesn’t work that way.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and if Harry\\\'s fate at the end of the movie is any indication, if they continue THAT story as well with the next one they\\\'ll probably end up having to put Harry in James\\\' place.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That would be even more idiotic than everything else combined. Silent Hill 2 is the only game that is not connected to the mythos, tying it in is asinine. Not to mention that the circumstances are wildly different and completely incompatible: Mary is dead (always was, James murdered her), Rose isn’t. James was never really contacted, Christopher was. James is insane, Christopher isn’t.

And there\\\'s not going to be a third movie. The first film didn\\\'t break even, and the reception was average \\\'\\\'at best\\\'\\\'. Revelation had less than half the budget, \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t break even, and its reception has been absolutely horrific. It\\\'ll get a sequel around the same time Film/{{Doom}} does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Heather hallcinates Valtiel several times for only a few seconds\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

When? I don\\\'t remember that. Even so, Valtiel was not a hallucination, so that still doesn\\\'t constitute an appearance.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"His role was no more involved or siginificant than it was in SH 3.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I like how you think your opinion is the only important one.

\\\'I don\\\'t like this character, therefore he\\\'s insignificant and should be removed. I don\\\'t care what you intended and I don\\\'t believe in subtlety or symbolism.\\\'

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What, you\\\'d rather of had Valtiel run around kicking ass? \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, yeah, definitely. That\\\'s exactly what I\\\'ve been saying. Thank you for acknowledging that, and not at all ignoring everything that I\\\'ve been saying, thank you so much.

It\\\'s funny that you say that though, because that\\\'s pretty much what Pyramid Head did, in stark contrast to what he does in the game, where he is much more restrained, and thus more terrifying.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"So they can put in Pyramid Head and at the same time stop the whining of \\\"Valtiel was supposed to be in the movie!\\\" from people like you.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question: How in the hell would anyone have complained about Valtiel not being in this movie, BEFORE THE MOVIE\\\'S EVEN RELEASED?!

It\\\'s more like Valtiel was an important part of the mythos, so they had to acknowledge him somehow, but ultimately were forced to include Pyramid Head in his place to [[PanderingToTheBase pander to people like]] \\\'\\\'YOU\\\'\\\' that get confused if Pyramid Head isn’t involved.

As I said above, nothing was mentioned of Valtiel in the first film. They made that choice to turn Pyramid Head into a Valtiel expy. No one was forcing them. And no one was complaining about a lack of Valtiel because he was not in the first Silent Hill.

You know what I did see though? Lots of people complaining about Pyramid Head being in that movie because he wasn\\\'t in the game.

People are only complaining now because they completely screwed him over for the more marketable Pyramid Head. It would’ve been better to just leave him out entirely. They left out Dr. Kaufmann in the first film, they didn’t try and give Lisa his role.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, Revelations isn\\\'t an adaption of [=SH=] 3, it\\\'s a movie that takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. If it was an adaption of [=SH=] 3, you\\\'d be right, there wouldn\\\'t be Pyramid Head, there wouldn\\\'t be Douglas dying, it would be Harry, the cult wouldn\\\'t be out to destroy Heather they\\\'d be out to turn her into their God, and so forth. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be. Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

[[http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nathan-fillion-firefly-gif.gif Wow.]]

I\\\'ve heard some pretty pathetic defenses for bad adaptations, but this takes the cake. Seriously, bravo.

[[http://movies.about.com/od/interviews/a/adelaide-clemens-michael-bassett-silent-hill-revelation.htm This is an interview with Michael J. Bassett, the director:]]

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It\\\'s an adaptation of game number three - it\\\'s an adaptation of that story, the mythology and the ride that you go on\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

So what were you saying, again?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Revelations [...] takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, that \\\"little else\\\" being basic premise, set-pieces, and plot points. [[SarcasmMode Totally different from what an adaptation does]]. I suggest you go play Silent Hill 1 and 3, because you clearly have never played them, or at least not in such a long time that your memories of them have almost completely faded, and then watch the movies. Do that, and tell me again that the movies are not adaptations.

What especially hilarious about this, is that the first movie fits that bill \\\'\\\'far\\\'\\\' better than Revelation does. Revelation has many, many more nods to its respective game than the first movie did to its game, but it\\\'s just done so \\\'\\\'poorly\\\'\\\' that it ends up the worse movie for it.

Completely destroying the source material does not mean it\\\'s no longer an adaptation. That is honestly some of the worst logic I\\\'ve ever heard. That\\\'s [[VideoGame/MassEffect3 Catalyst]]-level horrible logic.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

I\\\'m still waiting for you to explain this. Even if I accept your \\\"it\\\'s not really an adaptation\\\" idea, it still doesn\\\'t make any sense, because he\\\'s even more meaningless in that context. It makes about as much sense as my earlier Darth Vader idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"you are acting under the assumption that Pyramid Head\\\'s role and purpose in the movieverse is even remotely related to the same in SH 2,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, silly me, assuming that an adaptation which contains a certain character, will give that character the same reason for being there.

Otherwise that he would have absolutely no reason for being there, and his appearance would be pointless {{Fanservice}} at best, and PanderingToTheBase at worst. And that couldn\\\'t possibly be it, could it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and it\\\'s directly stated in the movie that that\\\'s not the case anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Going just by the first film, that’s not true. In fact he\\\'s barely acknowledged in the first film.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What you and others like you are doing is whining that Revelations isn\\\'t a scene for scene direct adaption of SH 3, when it isn\\\'t, wasn\\\'t intended to be, and shouldn\\\'t have to be. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No, we\\\'re not. At all. I\\\'ve already proven how your \\\"it\\\'s not an adaptation\\\" idea is a load of bull, and no one has ever said that it should be \\\"shot-for-shot\\\".

I was actually okay with the first film, it was a decent adaptation of the first game, it changed a lot, but ultimately the atmosphere and themes were intact.

All we- all I want is a movie that doesn\\\'t rip the source material to shreds, and then try and piece it back together with tape.

I\\\'d even be okay with your \\\"not-adaptation\\\" idea: a movie that takes the subtle, psychological and symbolic approach that the games do, but ultimately tells an original tale. That\\\'s pretty much what each subsequent game is anyway.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, it was an attempt to keep people like you quiet.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, I\\\'m sorry, I didn\\\'t realize that you were on the crew, or that you were clairvoyant as I noted above.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"They weren\\\'t going to stick some unimportant monster that few fans remember and even fewer actually care about\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I love how you think you speak for the entire fanbase.

I already said this quite a while ago, but it bears repeating:

If you feel a particular character didn’t get enough development, well now is your chance to fix that. Develop him, \\\'\\\'MAKE\\\'\\\' him memorable. That is the \\\'\\\'point\\\'\\\' of exposition and dialogue. That makes infinitely more sense than completely cutting that character out, and replacing him with an entirely different, completely unrelated character, who wasn\\\'t even in the same goddamn story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Over the one that all the fans know and all the fans are scared to hell by.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Honestly, I was laughing my ass off over how undignified they made Pyramid Head in this movie.

I don\\\'t know about you, but I found Pyramid Head far more terrifying when I was locked inside a tiny room with him, and only a few bullets and a wooden plank as my only defense, as he slowly approached me with that huge butcher knife.

Or when I was on the rooftop, and he spontaneously appeared behind me and threw me over the edge. Or when I was in the hallway desperately trying to outrun him, while he chased me with a spear.

But hey, that\\\'s just me. Maybe you find him \\\'\\\'menacingly turning a carousel\\\'\\\' to be the epitome of terror.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Whatever it is, if it isn\\\'t spelled out what exactly that it is and what it\\\'s purpose is, then it\\\'s just baseless Fan Wank.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So basically, everything has to have kindergarten-level writing, subtlety and implication aren’t real, and literary analysis is for obsessive nerds. You would probably lapse into a coma if you tried to watch Series/{{LOST}}.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Something that can be interpreted is opinionated and thus not fact.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Valtiel turning the valve (and all the other \\\"cycling\\\" imagery) is resurrection symbolism, it does not mean anything else. That\\\'s confirmed by both WordOfGod and in-game documents, ignoring that does not make it go away.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It doesn\\\'t matter if the series as a whole is designed to be interpreted rather than given outright.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So you\\\'re telling me that completely ignoring the franchise\\\'s very reason for existing, and considering it nothing more than a series of random, meaningless images, is a better alternative than using your brain and thinking?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The very reason the Book of Lost Memories exists is to put an end to this Fan Wank,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yeah, and guess what? It confirmed \\\'\\\'EVERYTHING\\\'\\\' that the audience had been saying, and everything that I’ve said thus far. So much for that whole “baseless fan wank” idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"but BLM it is not a factor in this discussion because the entire discussion is about whether Valtiel is important and identifiable enough to appear in this adaption instead of Pyramid Head.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

How convenient. Ignore everything that \\\'\\\'proves\\\'\\\' how important he is, and say there\\\'s nothing that shows how important he is.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Valtiel never appears to do anything in SH 3 and people need to read a guide book in order to know anything at all about him is proof enough that Valtiel isn\\\'t important enough.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s bull. Just because you need things spelled out to see their significance doesn\\\'t mean everyone did.

Do you really think Silent Hill 3 would\\\'ve been improved if the gameplay came to screeching halt every time something showed up, and a cutscene played to explain it? Only Franchise/MetalGear can get away with that, and even then its still widely loathed.

The symbolism in Silent Hill 3 and especially 2 are \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' being analyzed and talked about \\\'\\\'today\\\'\\\'. There\\\'s nothing else like it in AAA gaming scene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"As far as I\\\'m concerned, Valtiel is some random monster that never attacks or does much of anything. I know all that Lost Memories says about him, but that is irrelevant, he never does anything in the game itself, thus he is unimportant.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Okay then, by that logic, what makes Pyramid Head so important? All he does is attack James and Maria, nothing particularly special about that, all the monsters do that. Nothing is spelled out for him either.

Oh, I forgot, [[RuleOfCool he\\\'s cool]] and [[WolverinePublicity recognizable]], so he gets a free pass.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"And how many times does Valtiel appear for long enough and in good enough view for the player have to actually give him that close a look? Unless they are recording their playing sessions and pause and advance it frame by frame, none.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

At first you might not notice it, I\\\'ll give you that; but it doesn\\\'t take long to get familiar with all the monsters, so pretty soon you\\\'re gonna realize that this guy doesn\\\'t look like all the others, even with his brief appearances.

Oh, and that scene where he\\\'s turning the valve? You can stay there as long as you want, and get as good of a look at him as you want. That very same scene is the first scene of the opening cinematic, so even if you skip it you\\\'re still gonna see that.

Weird how they had such a meaningless character be the first thing you see every time you start the game, isn\\\'t it? Even Pyramid Head didn\\\'t get that honor in 2, he doesn\\\'t even show up in 2\\\'s opening cutscene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"In the games that they appear in themselves, in other words the only part most fans are actually likely to have seen? No.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has a painting, and single line that say who he is, and the painting doesn\\\'t even really say much. Hardly a wealth of information.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Harry actually has something to do with the previous movie\\\'s story which Revelations continues while James doesn\\\'t might have something to do with it, [...] You are being hyperbolic again.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That is not hyperbole. That is the same damn thing that happened to Valtiel. I don\\\'t care if you don\\\'t think Valtiel was important or interesting, he was in Silent Hill 3 and he had a specific role, Pyramid Head was not and did not. That is not debatable.

Valtiel\\\'s role (the role that you think doesn\\\'t exist or matter) is mentioned in detail numerous times, only with Pyramid Head in his place, for no other reason than because he\\\'s recognizable/cooler (you said so yourself). I.E., the same damn thing as my hypothetical scenario.

And for your information, Harry had little-to-nothing to do with the first film. His role, surprise surprise, was hijacked by a completely different character, Cheryl\\\'s mother, who is supposed to be dead by this point in the story. Har- er, Christopher, just wandered around aimlessly the entire movie. You could\\\'ve removed his scenes entirely and nothing would\\\'ve changed except the run-time.

That just made me realize something. If consistency is so important to you, why don\\\'t you care about Rose not being in this movie? True, she shows up for a minute, to give a really sloppy, nonsensical explanation for Sharon getting home, but her absence is still rather glaring.

Her role as Sharon\\\'s sole parent is taken by Christopher, ironically who she stole it from in the first place. Rose was the protagonist of the first film, meaning the audience is more familiar with her than Christopher, so it would\\\'ve been far more effective, from an audience perspective, to have her be the kidnapping victim.

Anyway, back on topic...

Yes, Pyramid Head was in the first film, so sure, have him in the sequel, that\\\'s fine. But here\\\'s the thing: the first film NEVER MENTIONS ANYTHING about Valtiel\\\'s role, EVER. That\\\'s a retcon if there ever was one, and it was all Revelation\\\'s doing.

If it was so damn important to have ol\\\' Trigonometry Face, they could\\\'ve easily had both. If they kept both, they even could\\\'ve kept Pyramid Head\\\'s real purpose (e.g. guilt and punishment) intact. That\\\'s already what they were implying with the first film, until Revelation retconned that away.

If it was a budget issue that prevented that, here\\\'s an idea: don\\\'t do that laughably stupid, not to mention completely meaningless, spider-mannequin scene. Or include The Missionary, who used to represent abortion, but now is just another random monster. Oh and he\\\'s Claudia now, because apparently we\\\'re in the Legend of Zelda now.

Or just leave out Valtiel entirely. That would be fine, too. You don’t adapt Literature/{{Dune}}, remove Duncan and replace him with Thufir and say they’re the same character. It just doesn’t work that way.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and if Harry\\\'s fate at the end of the movie is any indication, if they continue THAT story as well with the next one they\\\'ll probably end up having to put Harry in James\\\' place.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That would be even more idiotic than everything else combined. Silent Hill 2 is the only game that is not connected to the mythos, tying it in is asinine. Not to mention that the circumstances are wildly different and completely incompatible: Mary is dead (always was, James murdered her), Rose isn’t. James was never really contacted, Christopher was. James is insane, Christopher isn’t.

And there\\\'s not going to be a third movie. The first film didn\\\'t break even, and the reception was average \\\'\\\'at best\\\'\\\'. Revelation had less than half the budget, \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t break even, and its reception has been absolutely horrific. It\\\'ll get a sequel around the same time Film/{{Doom}} does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Heather hallcinates Valtiel several times for only a few seconds\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

When? I don\\\'t remember that. Even so, Valtiel was not a hallucination, so that still doesn\\\'t constitute an appearance.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"His role was no more involved or siginificant than it was in SH 3.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I like how you think your opinion is the only important one.

\\\'I don\\\'t like this character, therefore he\\\'s insignificant and should be removed. I don\\\'t care what you intended and I don\\\'t believe in subtlety or symbolism.\\\'

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What, you\\\'d rather of had Valtiel run around kicking ass? \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, yeah, definitely. That\\\'s exactly what I\\\'ve been saying. Thank you for acknowledging that, and not at all ignoring everything that I\\\'ve been saying, thank you so much.

It\\\'s funny that you say that though, because that\\\'s pretty much what Pyramid Head did, in stark contrast to what he does in the game, where he is much more restrained, and thus more terrifying.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"So they can put in Pyramid Head and at the same time stop the whining of \\\"Valtiel was supposed to be in the movie!\\\" from people like you.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question: How in the hell would anyone have complained about Valtiel not being in this movie, BEFORE THE MOVIE\\\'S EVEN RELEASED?!

It\\\'s more like Valtiel was an important part of the mythos, so they had to acknowledge him somehow, but ultimately were forced to include Pyramid Head in his place to [[PanderingToTheBase pander to people like]] \\\'\\\'YOU\\\'\\\' that get confused if Pyramid Head isn’t involved.

As I said above, nothing was mentioned of Valtiel in the first film. They made that choice to turn Pyramid Head into a Valtiel expy. No one was forcing them. And no one was complaining about a lack of Valtiel because he was not in the first Silent Hill.

You know what I did see though? Lots of people complaining about Pyramid Head being in that movie because he wasn\\\'t in the game.

People are only complaining now because they completely screwed him over for the more marketable Pyramid Head. It would’ve been better to just leave him out entirely. They left out Dr. Kaufmann in the first film, they didn’t try and give Lisa his role.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, Revelations isn\\\'t an adaption of [=SH=] 3, it\\\'s a movie that takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. If it was an adaption of [=SH=] 3, you\\\'d be right, there wouldn\\\'t be Pyramid Head, there wouldn\\\'t be Douglas dying, it would be Harry, the cult wouldn\\\'t be out to destroy Heather they\\\'d be out to turn her into their God, and so forth. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be. Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

[[http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nathan-fillion-firefly-gif.gif Wow.]]

I\\\'ve heard some pretty pathetic defenses for bad adaptations, but this takes the cake. Seriously, bravo.

[[http://movies.about.com/od/interviews/a/adelaide-clemens-michael-bassett-silent-hill-revelation.htm This is an interview with Michael J. Bassett, the director:]]

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It\\\'s an adaptation of game number three - it\\\'s an adaptation of that story, the mythology and the ride that you go on\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

So what were you saying, again?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Revelations [...] takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, that \\\"little else\\\" being basic premise, set-pieces, and plot points. [[SarcasmMode Totally different from what an adaptation does]]. I suggest you go play Silent Hill 1 and 3, because you clearly have never played them, or at least not in such a long time that your memories of them have almost completely faded, and then watch the movies. Do that, and tell me again that the movies are not adaptations.

What especially hilarious about that, is that the first movie fits this bill \\\'\\\'far\\\'\\\' better than Revelation does. Revelation has many, many more nods to its respective game than the first movie did to its game, but it\\\'s just done so \\\'\\\'poorly\\\'\\\' that it ends up the worse movie for it.

Completely destroying the source material does not mean it\\\'s no longer an adaptation. That is honestly some of the worst logic I\\\'ve ever heard. That\\\'s [[VideoGame/MassEffect3 Catalyst]]-level horrible logic.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

I\\\'m still waiting for you to explain this. Even if I accept your \\\"it\\\'s not really an adaptation\\\" idea, it still doesn\\\'t make any sense, because he\\\'s even more meaningless in that context. It makes about as much sense as my earlier Darth Vader idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"you are acting under the assumption that Pyramid Head\\\'s role and purpose in the movieverse is even remotely related to the same in SH 2,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, silly me, assuming that an adaptation which contains a certain character, will give that character the same reason for being there.

Otherwise that he would have absolutely no reason for being there, and his appearance would be pointless {{Fanservice}} at best, and PanderingToTheBase at worst. And that couldn\\\'t possibly be it, could it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and it\\\'s directly stated in the movie that that\\\'s not the case anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Going just by the first film, that’s not true. In fact he\\\'s barely acknowledged in the first film.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What you and others like you are doing is whining that Revelations isn\\\'t a scene for scene direct adaption of SH 3, when it isn\\\'t, wasn\\\'t intended to be, and shouldn\\\'t have to be. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No, we\\\'re not. At all. I\\\'ve already proven how your \\\"it\\\'s not an adaptation\\\" idea is a load of bull, and no one has ever said that it should be \\\"shot-for-shot\\\".

I was actually okay with the first film, it was a decent adaptation of the first game, it changed a lot, but ultimately the atmosphere and themes were intact.

All we- all I want is a movie that doesn\\\'t rip the source material to shreds, and then try and piece it back together with tape.

I\\\'d even be okay with your \\\"not-adaptation\\\" idea: a movie that takes the subtle, psychological and symbolic approach that the games do, but ultimately tells an original tale. That\\\'s pretty much what each subsequent game is anyway.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, it was an attempt to keep people like you quiet.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, I\\\'m sorry, I didn\\\'t realize that you were on the crew, or that you were clairvoyant as I noted above.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"They weren\\\'t going to stick some unimportant monster that few fans remember and even fewer actually care about\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I love how you think you speak for the entire fanbase.

I already said this quite a while ago, but it bears repeating:

If you feel a particular character didn’t get enough development, well now is your chance to fix that. Develop him, \\\'\\\'MAKE\\\'\\\' him memorable. That is the \\\'\\\'point\\\'\\\' of exposition and dialogue. That makes infinitely more sense than completely cutting that character out, and replacing him with an entirely different, completely unrelated character, who wasn\\\'t even in the same goddamn story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Over the one that all the fans know and all the fans are scared to hell by.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Honestly, I was laughing my ass off over how undignified they made Pyramid Head in this movie.

I don\\\'t know about you, but I found Pyramid Head far more terrifying when I was locked inside a tiny room with him, and only a few bullets and a wooden plank as my only defense, as he slowly approached me with that huge butcher knife.

Or when I was on the rooftop, and he spontaneously appeared behind me and threw me over the edge. Or when I was in the hallway desperately trying to outrun him, while he chased me with a spear.

But hey, that\\\'s just me. Maybe you find him \\\'\\\'menacingly turning a carousel\\\'\\\' to be the epitome of terror.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Whatever it is, if it isn\\\'t spelled out what exactly that it is and what it\\\'s purpose is, then it\\\'s just baseless Fan Wank.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So basically, everything has to have kindergarten-level writing, subtlety and implication aren’t real, and literary analysis is for obsessive nerds. You would probably lapse into a coma if you tried to watch Series/{{LOST}}.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Something that can be interpreted is opinionated and thus not fact.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Valtiel turning the valve (and all the other \\\"cycling\\\" imagery) is resurrection symbolism, it does not mean anything else. That\\\'s confirmed by both WordOfGod and in-game documents, ignoring that does not make it go away.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It doesn\\\'t matter if the series as a whole is designed to be interpreted rather than given outright.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

So you\\\'re telling me that completely ignoring the franchise\\\'s very reason for existing, and considering it nothing more than a series of random, meaningless images, is a better alternative than using your brain and thinking?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The very reason the Book of Lost Memories exists is to put an end to this Fan Wank,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yeah, and guess what? It confirmed \\\'\\\'EVERYTHING\\\'\\\' that the audience had been saying, and everything that I’ve said thus far. So much for that whole “baseless fan wank” idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"but BLM it is not a factor in this discussion because the entire discussion is about whether Valtiel is important and identifiable enough to appear in this adaption instead of Pyramid Head.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

How convenient. Ignore everything that \\\'\\\'proves\\\'\\\' how important he is, and say there\\\'s nothing that shows how important he is.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Valtiel never appears to do anything in SH 3 and people need to read a guide book in order to know anything at all about him is proof enough that Valtiel isn\\\'t important enough.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s bull. Just because you need things spelled out to see their significance doesn\\\'t mean everyone did.

Do you really think Silent Hill 3 would\\\'ve been improved if the gameplay came to screeching halt every time something showed up, and a cutscene played to explain it? Only Franchise/MetalGear can get away with that, and even then its still widely loathed.

The symbolism in Silent Hill 3 and especially 2 are \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' being analyzed and talked about \\\'\\\'today\\\'\\\'. There\\\'s nothing else like it in AAA gaming scene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"As far as I\\\'m concerned, Valtiel is some random monster that never attacks or does much of anything. I know all that Lost Memories says about him, but that is irrelevant, he never does anything in the game itself, thus he is unimportant.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Okay then, by that logic, what makes Pyramid Head so important? All he does is attack James and Maria, nothing particularly special about that, all the monsters do that. Nothing is spelled out for him either.

Oh, I forgot, [[RuleOfCool he\\\'s cool]] and [[WolverinePublicity recognizable]], so he gets a free pass.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"And how many times does Valtiel appear for long enough and in good enough view for the player have to actually give him that close a look? Unless they are recording their playing sessions and pause and advance it frame by frame, none.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

At first you might not notice it, I\\\'ll give you that; but it doesn\\\'t take long to get familiar with all the monsters, so pretty soon you\\\'re gonna realize that this guy doesn\\\'t look like all the others, even with his brief appearances.

Oh, and that scene where he\\\'s turning the valve? You can stay there as long as you want, and get as good of a look at him as you want. That very same scene is the first scene of the opening cinematic, so even if you skip it you\\\'re still gonna see that.

Weird how they had such a meaningless character be the first thing you see every time you start the game, isn\\\'t it? Even Pyramid Head didn\\\'t get that honor in 2, he doesn\\\'t even show up in 2\\\'s opening cutscene.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"In the games that they appear in themselves, in other words the only part most fans are actually likely to have seen? No.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Pyramid Head has a painting, and single line that say who he is, and the painting doesn\\\'t even really say much. Hardly a wealth of information.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"The fact that Harry actually has something to do with the previous movie\\\'s story which Revelations continues while James doesn\\\'t might have something to do with it, [...] You are being hyperbolic again.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That is not hyperbole. That is the same damn thing that happened to Valtiel. I don\\\'t care if you don\\\'t think Valtiel was important or interesting, he was in Silent Hill 3 and he had a specific role, Pyramid Head was not and did not. That is not debatable.

Valtiel\\\'s role (the role that you think doesn\\\'t exist or matter) is mentioned in detail numerous times, only with Pyramid Head in his place, for no other reason than because he\\\'s recognizable/cooler (you said so yourself). I.E., the same damn thing as my hypothetical scenario.

And for your information, Harry had little-to-nothing to do with the first film. His role, surprise surprise, was hijacked by a completely different character, Cheryl\\\'s mother, who is supposed to be dead by this point in the story. Har- er, Christopher, just wandered around aimlessly the entire movie. You could\\\'ve removed his scenes entirely and nothing would\\\'ve changed except the run-time.

That just made me realize something. If consistency is so important to you, why don\\\'t you care about Rose not being in this movie? True, she shows up for a minute, to give a really sloppy, nonsensical explanation for Sharon getting home, but her absence is still rather glaring.

Her role as Sharon\\\'s sole parent is taken by Christopher, ironically who she stole it from in the first place. Rose was the protagonist of the first film, meaning the audience is more familiar with her than Christopher, so it would\\\'ve been far more effective, from an audience perspective, to have her be the kidnapping victim.

Anyway, back on topic...

Yes, Pyramid Head was in the first film, so sure, have him in the sequel, that\\\'s fine. But here\\\'s the thing: the first film NEVER MENTIONS ANYTHING about Valtiel\\\'s role, EVER. That\\\'s a retcon if there ever was one, and it was all Revelation\\\'s doing.

If it was so damn important to have ol\\\' Trigonometry Face, they could\\\'ve easily had both. If they kept both, they even could\\\'ve kept Pyramid Head\\\'s real purpose (e.g. guilt and punishment) intact. That\\\'s already what they were implying with the first film, until Revelation retconned that away.

If it was a budget issue that prevented that, here\\\'s an idea: don\\\'t do that laughably stupid, not to mention completely meaningless, spider-mannequin scene. Or include The Missionary, who used to represent abortion, but now is just another random monster. Oh and he\\\'s Claudia now, because apparently we\\\'re in the Legend of Zelda now.

Or just leave out Valtiel entirely. That would be fine, too. You don’t adapt Literature/{{Dune}}, remove Duncan and replace him with Thufir and say they’re the same character. It just doesn’t work that way.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and if Harry\\\'s fate at the end of the movie is any indication, if they continue THAT story as well with the next one they\\\'ll probably end up having to put Harry in James\\\' place.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

That would be even more idiotic than everything else combined. Silent Hill 2 is the only game that is not connected to the mythos, tying it in is asinine. Not to mention that the circumstances are wildly different and completely incompatible: Mary is dead (always was, James murdered her), Rose isn’t. James was never really contacted, Christopher was. James is insane, Christopher isn’t.

And there\\\'s not going to be a third movie. The first film didn\\\'t break even, and the reception was average \\\'\\\'at best\\\'\\\'. Revelation had less than half the budget, \\\'\\\'still\\\'\\\' didn\\\'t break even, and its reception has been absolutely horrific. It\\\'ll get a sequel around the same time Film/{{Doom}} does.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Heather hallcinates Valtiel several times for only a few seconds\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

When? I don\\\'t remember that. Even so, Valtiel was not a hallucination, so that still doesn\\\'t constitute an appearance.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"His role was no more involved or siginificant than it was in SH 3.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I like how you think your opinion is the only important one.

\\\'I don\\\'t like this character, therefore he\\\'s insignificant and should be removed. I don\\\'t care what you intended and I don\\\'t believe in subtlety or symbolism.\\\'

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What, you\\\'d rather of had Valtiel run around kicking ass? \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, yeah, definitely. That\\\'s exactly what I\\\'ve been saying. Thank you for acknowledging that, and not at all ignoring everything that I\\\'ve been saying, thank you so much.

It\\\'s funny that you say that though, because that\\\'s pretty much what Pyramid Head did, in stark contrast to what he does in the game, where he is much more restrained, and thus more terrifying.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"So they can put in Pyramid Head and at the same time stop the whining of \\\"Valtiel was supposed to be in the movie!\\\" from people like you.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Here\\\'s a question: How in the hell would anyone have complained about Valtiel not being in this movie, BEFORE THE MOVIE\\\'S EVEN RELEASED?!

It\\\'s more like Valtiel was an important part of the mythos, so they had to acknowledge him somehow, but ultimately were forced to include Pyramid Head in his place to [[PanderingToTheBase pander to people like]] \\\'\\\'YOU\\\'\\\' that get confused if Pyramid Head isn’t involved.

As I said above, nothing was mentioned of Valtiel in the first film. They made that choice to turn Pyramid Head into a Valtiel expy. No one was forcing them. And no one was complaining about a lack of Valtiel because he was not in the first Silent Hill.

You know what I did see though? Lots of people complaining about Pyramid Head being in that movie because he wasn\\\'t in the game.

People are only complaining now because they completely screwed him over for the more marketable Pyramid Head. It would’ve been better to just leave him out entirely. They left out Dr. Kaufmann in the first film, they didn’t try and give Lisa his role.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, Revelations isn\\\'t an adaption of [=SH=] 3, it\\\'s a movie that takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. If it was an adaption of [=SH=] 3, you\\\'d be right, there wouldn\\\'t be Pyramid Head, there wouldn\\\'t be Douglas dying, it would be Harry, the cult wouldn\\\'t be out to destroy Heather they\\\'d be out to turn her into their God, and so forth. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be. Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

[[http://weknowgifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/nathan-fillion-firefly-gif.gif Wow.]]

I\\\'ve heard some pretty pathetic defenses for bad adaptations, but this takes the cake. Seriously, bravo.

[[http://movies.about.com/od/interviews/a/adelaide-clemens-michael-bassett-silent-hill-revelation.htm This is an interview with Michael J. Bassett, the director:]]

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"It\\\'s an adaptation of game number three - it\\\'s an adaptation of that story, the mythology and the ride that you go on\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

So what were you saying, again?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Revelations [...] takes it name and the character\\\'s names from [=SH=] 3 and little else. Revelations isn\\\'t Silent Hill 3 and you should quit acting it\\\'s supposed to be.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, that \\\"little else\\\" being basic premise, set-pieces, and plot points. [[SarcasmMode Totally different from what an adaptation does]]. I suggest you go play Silent Hill 1 and 3, because you clearly have never played them, or at least not in such a long time that your memories of them have almost completely faded, and then watch the movies. Do that, and tell me again that the movies are not adaptations.

Completely destroying the source material does not mean it\\\'s no longer an adaptation. That is honestly some of the worst logic I\\\'ve ever heard. That\\\'s [[VideoGame/MassEffect3 Catalyst]]-level horrible logic.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Having Pyramid Head in makes plenty of sense, you just don\\\'t want to admit it.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

...

I\\\'m still waiting for you to explain this. Even if I accept your \\\"it\\\'s not really an adaptation\\\" idea, it still doesn\\\'t make any sense, because he\\\'s even more meaningless in that context. It makes about as much sense as my earlier Darth Vader idea.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"you are acting under the assumption that Pyramid Head\\\'s role and purpose in the movieverse is even remotely related to the same in SH 2,\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Yes, silly me, assuming that an adaptation which contains a certain character, will give that character the same reason for being there.

Otherwise that he would have absolutely no reason for being there, and his appearance would be pointless {{Fanservice}} at best, and PanderingToTheBase at worst. And that couldn\\\'t possibly be it, could it?

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"and it\\\'s directly stated in the movie that that\\\'s not the case anyway.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Going just by the first film, that’s not true. In fact he\\\'s barely acknowledged in the first film.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"What you and others like you are doing is whining that Revelations isn\\\'t a scene for scene direct adaption of SH 3, when it isn\\\'t, wasn\\\'t intended to be, and shouldn\\\'t have to be. \\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

No, we\\\'re not. At all. I\\\'ve already proven how your \\\"it\\\'s not an adaptation\\\" idea is a load of bull, and no one has ever said that it should be \\\"shot-for-shot\\\". What especially hilarious about that, is that the first movie fits that bill \\\'\\\'far\\\'\\\' better than Revelation does. Revelation has many, many more nods to its respective game than the first movie did to its game; but it\\\'s just done so poorly that it winds up the worse movie for it.

I was actually okay with the first film, it was a decent adaptation of the first game, it changed a lot, but ultimately the atmosphere and themes were intact.

All we- all I want is a movie that doesn\\\'t rip the source material to shreds, and then try and piece it back together with tape.

I\\\'d even be okay with your \\\"not-adaptation\\\" idea: a movie that takes the subtle, psychological and symbolic approach that the games do, but ultimately tells an original tale. That\\\'s pretty much what each subsequent game is anyway.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Again, it was an attempt to keep people like you quiet.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Oh, I\\\'m sorry, I didn\\\'t realize that you were on the crew, or that you were clairvoyant as I noted above.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"They weren\\\'t going to stick some unimportant monster that few fans remember and even fewer actually care about\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

I love how you think you speak for the entire fanbase.

I already said this quite a while ago, but it bears repeating:

If you feel a particular character didn’t get enough development, well now is your chance to fix that. Develop him, \\\'\\\'MAKE\\\'\\\' him memorable. That is the \\\'\\\'point\\\'\\\' of exposition and dialogue. That makes infinitely more sense than completely cutting that character out, and replacing him with an entirely different, completely unrelated character, who wasn\\\'t even in the same goddamn story.

\\\'\\\'\\\'\\\"Over the one that all the fans know and all the fans are scared to hell by.\\\"\\\'\\\'\\\'

Honestly, I was laughing my ass off over how undignified they made Pyramid Head in this movie.

I don\\\'t know about you, but I found Pyramid Head far more terrifying when I was locked inside a tiny room with him, and only a few bullets and a wooden plank as my only defense, as he slowly approached me with that huge butcher knife.

Or when I was on the rooftop, and he spontaneously appeared behind me and threw me over the edge. Or when I was in the hallway desperately trying to outrun him, while he chased me with a spear.

But hey, that\\\'s just me. Maybe you find him \\\'\\\'menacingly turning a carousel\\\'\\\' to be the epitome of terror.