Discussion History YMMV / LittleMissMary

Looking at the description, the laconic, and the name, they don\\\'t match. The laconic includes NeutralFemale, something applicable to Other M Samus in many situations (Sector Zero, final boss), or DamselInDistress, something not. The description requires \\\"helpless.\\\" The name makes no sense if becoming a figure similar to TheChick is not part of the trope; something like Damselification would work better.

\\\'\\\'By sheer virtue of Samus being the main character, she cannot be this trope. You might have had it if Samus was side-lined to the point of being unplayable (say, she got knocked out for lengths of time and you had to actually play as Anthony), but unfortunately, this is a video game and regardless of cutscenes, a video game must be seen in its entirety and Samus is the driving force of this game. If Samus was not in the game, the game wouldn\\\'t happen and nobody would care about the Bottle Ship, Adam Malkovich, etc.\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s the thing: It would happen. Adam\\\'s team arrived independently of Samus, Adam was going to find out about and destroy Sector Zero either way, the military would have arrived and attacked independently, the Deleter would still be killed by mb, Anthony would have still been the sole surviving member who convinces the military to let him take Madeline, and at the end the entire ship would still have been blown up because of Anthony\\\'s survival and the destruction of the Metroid program.

\\\'\\\'By the way, your Chi-Chi example really just proves why Samus doesn\\\'t fit - Chi-Chi is always a combo of stereotypical feminine and masculine traits (her first appearance has her simultaneously crying like a little girl in terror AND decapitating a monster), the problem is she stops doing anything in the plot except being Goku\\\'s wife and occasional victim. The entire story of Other M is Samus\\\' story, even if other people impact more than in previous games (which, since all previous games are Samus as the only character to impact the plot, doesn\\\'t take much.)\\\'\\\'

It\\\'s not really Samus\\\'s story; the Madeline and Melissa subplot has nothing to do with Samus, and neither does the conspiracy one. Only one subplot is focused on Samus, and it\\\'s a subplot about an emotional relationship with another character. Out of the three subplots, this one relies on the characters as an observer, not a participant; it\\\'s about how Samus feels, not about what she does (It also portrays her as a static character in the Sector Zero scene, which means that she doesn\\\'t actually even affect it).

\\\'\\\'Point to me where in the description this trope is \\\"The Ishmael with tits.\\\"\\\'\\\'

I never said that; I said that the switch in character from active participant in narrative to peripheral perspective fits this trope.

\\\'\\\'Even then, I\\\'ve read Moby Dick. Ishmael is nothing more than a narrator who also exists in the story. Without Ishmael, the story would be exactly the same. Other M would not work at all without Samus. Therefore, she\\\'s an active character in the plot.\\\'\\\'

Again, \\\'\\\'\\\'what successful actions does Samus take that affect the narrative?\\\'\\\'\\\'

You keep saying she\\\'s an active character, yet you never say what she actually does. An active character in the plot does things to affect the plot beyond being an observer or recipient. That\\\'s why it\\\'s called an active character. A character is not active just because he or she appears a lot and feels stuff; a character is active when he or she does stuff. To use the blog I linked to, [[TheDarkKnight Batman]] is an active character, the Joker is an active character, but Alfred is not an active character in the plot, because even though he\\\'s impeccably acted and his emotions reflect the themes of the movies, he barely affects the plot.

(Btw, thank you for taking the time to reply politely and throughly. I know it\\\'s rather annoying to argue with people over the internet.)

Looking at the description, the laconic, and the name, they don\\\'t match. The laconic includes NeutralFemale, something applicable to Other M Samus in many situations (Sector Zero, final boss), or DamselInDistress, something not. The description requires \\\"helpless.\\\" The name makes no sense if becoming a figure similar to TheChick is not part of the trope; something like Damselification would work better.

\\\'\\\'By sheer virtue of Samus being the main character, she cannot be this trope. You might have had it if Samus was side-lined to the point of being unplayable (say, she got knocked out for lengths of time and you had to actually play as Anthony), but unfortunately, this is a video game and regardless of cutscenes, a video game must be seen in its entirety and Samus is the driving force of this game. If Samus was not in the game, the game wouldn\\\'t happen and nobody would care about the Bottle Ship, Adam Malkovich, etc.\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s the thing: It would happen. Adam\\\'s team arrived independently of Samus, Adam was going to find out about and destroy Sector Zero either way, the military would have arrived and attacked independently, the Deleter would still be killed by mb, Anthony would have still been the sole surviving member who convinces the military to let him take Madeline, and at the end the entire ship would still have been blown up because of Anthony\\\'s survival and the destruction of the Metroid program.

\\\'\\\'By the way, your Chi-Chi example really just proves why Samus doesn\\\'t fit - Chi-Chi is always a combo of stereotypical feminine and masculine traits (her first appearance has her simultaneously crying like a little girl in terror AND decapitating a monster), the problem is she stops doing anything in the plot except being Goku\\\'s wife and occasional victim. The entire story of Other M is Samus\\\' story, even if other people impact more than in previous games (which, since all previous games are Samus as the only character to impact the plot, doesn\\\'t take much.)\\\'\\\'

It\\\'s not really Samus\\\'s story; the Madeline and Melissa subplot has nothing to do with Samus, and neither does the conspiracy one. Only one subplot is focused on Samus, and it\\\'s a subplot about an emotional relationship with another character. Out of the three subplots, this one relies on the characters as an observer, not a participant; it\\\'s about how Samus feels, not about what she does (It also portrays her as a static character in the Sector Zero scene, which means that she doesn\\\'t actually even affect it).

\\\'\\\'Point to me where in the description this trope is \\\"The Ishmael with tits.\\\"\\\'\\\'

I never said that; I said that the switch in character from active participant in narrative to peripheral perspective fits this trope.

\\\'\\\'Even then, I\\\'ve read Moby Dick. Ishmael is nothing more than a narrator who also exists in the story. Without Ishmael, the story would be exactly the same. Other M would not work at all without Samus. Therefore, she\\\'s an active character in the plot.\\\'\\\'

Again, \\\'\\\'\\\'what successful actions does Samus take that affect the narrative?\\\'\\\'\\\'

You keep saying she\\\'s an active character, yet you never say what she actually does. An active character in the plot does things to affect the plot beyond being an observer or recipient. That\\\'s why it\\\'s called an active character. A character is not active just because he or she appears a lot and feels stuff; a character is active when he or she does stuff. To use the blog I linked to, [[TheDarkKnight Batman]] is an active character, the Joker is an active character, but Alfred is not an active character in the plot, because even though he\\\'s impeccably acted and his emotions reflect the themes of the movies, he barely affects the plot.

(Btw, thank you for taking the time to reply politely. I know it\\\'s rather annoying to argue with people over the internet.)

Looking at the description, the laconic, and the name, they don\\\'t match. The laconic includes NeutralFemale, something applicable to Other M Samus in many situations (Sector Zero, final boss), or DamselInDistress, something not. The description requires \\\"helpless.\\\" The name makes no sense if becoming a figure similar to TheChick is not part of the trope; something like Damselification would work better.

\\\'\\\'By sheer virtue of Samus being the main character, she cannot be this trope. You might have had it if Samus was side-lined to the point of being unplayable (say, she got knocked out for lengths of time and you had to actually play as Anthony), but unfortunately, this is a video game and regardless of cutscenes, a video game must be seen in its entirety and Samus is the driving force of this game. If Samus was not in the game, the game wouldn\\\'t happen and nobody would care about the Bottle Ship, Adam Malkovich, etc.\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s the thing: It would happen. Adam\\\'s team arrived independently of Samus, Adam was going to find out about and destroy Sector Zero either way, the military would have arrived and attacked independently, the Deleter would still be killed by mb, Anthony would have still been the sole surviving member who convinces the military to let him take Madeline, and at the end the entire ship would still have been blown up because of Anthony\\\'s survival and the destruction of the Metroid program.

\\\'\\\'By the way, your Chi-Chi example really just proves why Samus doesn\\\'t fit - Chi-Chi is always a combo of stereotypical feminine and masculine traits (her first appearance has her simultaneously crying like a little girl in terror AND decapitating a monster), the problem is she stops doing anything in the plot except being Goku\\\'s wife and occasional victim. The entire story of Other M is Samus\\\' story, even if other people impact more than in previous games (which, since all previous games are Samus as the only character to impact the plot, doesn\\\'t take much.)\\\'\\\'

It\\\'s not really Samus\\\'s story; the Madeline and Melissa subplot has nothing to do with Samus, and neither does the conspiracy one. Only one subplot is focused on Samus, and it\\\'s a subplot about an emotional relationship with another character. Out of the three subplots, this one relies on the characters as an observer, not a participant; it\\\'s about how Samus feels, not about what she does (It also portrays her as a static character in the Sector Zero scene, which means that she doesn\\\'t actually even affect it).

\\\'\\\'Point to me where in the description this trope is \\\"The Ishmael with tits.\\\"\\\'\\\'

I never said that; I said that the switch in character from active participant in narrative to peripheral perspective fits this trope.

\\\'\\\'Even then, I\\\'ve read Moby Dick. Ishmael is nothing more than a narrator who also exists in the story. Without Ishmael, the story would be exactly the same. Other M would not work at all without Samus. Therefore, she\\\'s an active character in the plot.\\\'\\\'

Again, \\\'\\\'\\\'what successful actions does Samus take that affect the narrative?\\\'\\\'\\\'

You keep saying she\\\'s an active character, yet you never say what she actually does. An active character in the plot does things to affect the plot beyond being an observer or recipient. That\\\'s why it\\\'s called an active character. A character is not active just because he or she appears a lot and feels stuff; a character is active when he or she does stuff. To use the blog I linked to, [[TheDarkKnight Batman]] is an active character, the Joker is an active character, but Alfred is not an active character in the plot, because even though he\\\'s impeccably acted and his emotions reflect the themes of the movies, he barely affects the plot.

Looking at the description, the laconic, and the name, they don\\\'t match. The laconic includes NeutralFemale, something applicable to Other M Samus in many situations (Sector Zero, final boss), or DamselInDistress, something not. The description requires \\\"helpless.\\\" The name makes no sense if becoming a figure similar to TheChick is not part of the trope; something like Damselification would work better.

\\\'\\\'By sheer virtue of Samus being the main character, she cannot be this trope. You might have had it if Samus was side-lined to the point of being unplayable (say, she got knocked out for lengths of time and you had to actually play as Anthony), but unfortunately, this is a video game and regardless of cutscenes, a video game must be seen in its entirety and Samus is the driving force of this game. If Samus was not in the game, the game wouldn\\\'t happen and nobody would care about the Bottle Ship, Adam Malkovich, etc.\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s the thing: It would happen. Adam\\\'s team arrived independently of Samus, Adam was going to find out about and destroy Sector Zero either way, the military would have arrived and attacked independently, the Deleter would still be killed by mb, Anthony would have still been the sole surviving member who convinces the military to let him take Madeline, and at the end the entire ship would still have been blown up because of Anthony\\\'s survival and the destruction of the Metroid program.

\\\'\\\'By the way, your Chi-Chi example really just proves why Samus doesn\\\'t fit - Chi-Chi is always a combo of stereotypical feminine and masculine traits (her first appearance has her simultaneously crying like a little girl in terror AND decapitating a monster), the problem is she stops doing anything in the plot except being Goku\\\'s wife and occasional victim. The entire story of Other M is Samus\\\' story, even if other people impact more than in previous games (which, since all previous games are Samus as the only character to impact the plot, doesn\\\'t take much.)\\\'\\\'

It\\\'s not really Samus\\\'s story; the Madeline and Melissa subplot has nothing to do with Samus, and neither does the conspiracy one. Only one subplot is focused on Samus, and it\\\'s a subplot about an emotional relationship with another character. Out of the three subplots, this one relies on the characters as an observer, not a participant; it\\\'s about how Samus feels, not about what she does (It also portrays her as a static character in the Sector Zero scene, which means that she doesn\\\'t actually even affect it).

\\\'\\\'Point to me where in the description this trope is \\\"The Ishmael with tits.\\\"\\\'\\\'

I never said that; I said that the switch in character from active participant in narrative to peripheral perspective fits this trope.

\\\'\\\'Even then, I\\\'ve read Moby Dick. Ishmael is nothing more than a narrator who also exists in the story. Without Ishmael, the story would be exactly the same. Other M would not work at all without Samus. Therefore, she\\\'s an active character in the plot.\\\'\\\'

Again, \\\'\\\'\\\'what successful actions does Samus take that affect the narrative?\\\'\\\'\\\'

You keep saying she\\\'s an active character, yet you never say what she actually does. An active character in the plot does things to affect the plot beyond being an observer or recipient. That\\\'s why it\\\'s called an active character. A character is not active just because he or she appears a lot and feels stuff; a character is active when he or she does stuff. To use the blog I linked to, Batman is an active character, the Joker is an active character, but Alfred is not an active character in the plot, because even though he\\\'s impeccably acted and his emotions play a large role, he barely affects the plot.

Looking at the description, the laconic, and the name, they don\\\'t match. The laconic includes NeutralFemale, something applicable to Other M Samus in many situations (Sector Zero, final boss), or DamselInDistress, something not. The description requires \\\"helpless.\\\" The name makes no sense if becoming a figure similar to TheChick is not part of the trope; something like Damselification would work better.

\\\'\\\'By sheer virtue of Samus being the main character, she cannot be this trope. You might have had it if Samus was side-lined to the point of being unplayable (say, she got knocked out for lengths of time and you had to actually play as Anthony), but unfortunately, this is a video game and regardless of cutscenes, a video game must be seen in its entirety and Samus is the driving force of this game. If Samus was not in the game, the game wouldn\\\'t happen and nobody would care about the Bottle Ship, Adam Malkovich, etc.\\\'\\\'

That\\\'s the thing: It would happen. Adam\\\'s team arrived independently of Samus, Adam was going to find out about and destroy Sector Zero either way, the military would have arrived and attacked independently, the Deleter would still be killed by mb, Anthony would have still been the sole surviving member who convinces the military to let him take Madeline, and at the end the entire ship would still have been blown up because of Anthony\\\'s survival and the destruction of the Metroid program.

\\\'\\\'By the way, your Chi-Chi example really just proves why Samus doesn\\\'t fit - Chi-Chi is always a combo of stereotypical feminine and masculine traits (her first appearance has her simultaneously crying like a little girl in terror AND decapitating a monster), the problem is she stops doing anything in the plot except being Goku\\\'s wife and occasional victim. The entire story of Other M is Samus\\\' story, even if other people impact more than in previous games (which, since all previous games are Samus as the only character to impact the plot, doesn\\\'t take much.)\\\'\\\'

It\\\'s not really Samus\\\'s story; the Madeline and Melissa subplot has nothing to do with Samus, and neither does the conspiracy one. Only one subplot is focused on Samus, and it\\\'s a subplot about an emotional relationship with another character. Out of the three subplots, this one relies on the characters as an observer, not a participant; it\\\'s about how Samus feels, not about what she does (It also portrays her as a static character in the Sector Zero scene, which means that she doesn\\\'t actually even affect it).

\\\'\\\'Point to me where in the description this trope is \\\"The Ishmael with tits.\\\"\\\'\\\'

I never said that; I said that the switch in character from active participant in narrative to peripheral perspective fits this trope.

\\\'\\\'Even then, I\\\'ve read Moby Dick. Ishmael is nothing more than a narrator who also exists in the story. Without Ishmael, the story would be exactly the same. Other M would not work at all without Samus. Therefore, she\\\'s an active character in the plot.\\\'\\\'

Again, \\\'\\\'\\\'what successful actions does Samus take that affect the narrative?\\\'\\\'\\\'

You keep saying she\\\'s an active character, yet you never say what she actually does. An active character does things to affect the plot beyond being an observer or recipient. That\\\'s why it\\\'s called an active character.