[003]
Cryocene
Current Version
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1. About \
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1. About \\\"Death\\\" and related deities: Normally, I would agree with you on positing they might be different sources of Death-based powers... but one fact makes me lean \\\'\\\'really\\\'\\\' far into them sharing a common origin: Prince of Death\\\'s Staff.
The Staff is derived from Godwyn\\\'s power, borne from his half of the Cursemark of Death. This Cursemark in turn was a portion of the Rune of Death which Ranni stole from Maliketh\\\'s Black Blade. The Rune of Death itself in turn was also called Destined Death (Enia\\\'s words), and though she claimed it was plucked out of Golden Order since its creation, every other descriptions claim it once belonged to the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Maliketh defeated her.
In short, Godwyn\\\'s power is quite explicitly descended from Destined Death. This much is factual, no ifs or buts.
The staff buffs all Death Sorceries. Both Fia\\\'s Mist - which she learned from Godwyn - \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' Ghostflame Sorceries, which the Death Rite Birds use. Given Fromsoft did not change this even after several patches, and how GameplayAndStoryIntegration is often in full effect for most of Fromsoft\\\'s games, it\\\'s all but outright stated that they share a common origin.
The fact the Eclipse Greatshield could ward off Destined Death can be easily explained as one source counteracting itself; it is not without precedent as Radahn learned the gravity powers of the star spawns to block off more falling stars from landing onto the Lands Between. It is, unfortunately, no proof or indication that they are different powers competing.
As for Godskin Incantantions being purely Faith based while Death Sorceries involve Intelligence in addition to Faith, it is important to note Greater Will and Golden Order also have this: most Two Fingers and Erdtree Incantations are purely Faith based while Golden Order Fundamentalism also utilize Intelligence, yet all three are unambigiously derived from Greater Will. In short, Godskin Incantations being styled differently from Death Sorceries do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' prove they are different.
2. About Unalloyed Gold: While it is true Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is never even mentioned or found inside Farum Azula, the fact remains that the Dragonlord\\\'s chamber \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' able to channel its power, enough to outright purge the influence of Frenzied Flame from the Tarnished.
While the \\\'\\\'nature\\\'\\\' of the connection, and \\\'\\\'how much\\\'\\\' they are connected, are impossible to determine due to lack of information, it is \\\'\\\'undeniable\\\'\\\' a connection exists.
Combined with the other story breadcrumbs we have about outer gods (most prominently, as far as we know every power which can counteract an outer god is \\\'\\\'almost always\\\'\\\' born from an outer god), we can reasonably conclude the unalloyed gold is derived from the god whom the dragons used to serve, and this god is an outer god.
Of course, whether or not the conclusion is 100% certain is impossible to determine. We know almost nothing about the god whom Placidusax waited for; it\\\'s one of the reasons why another troper proposed the page for Outer Gods should have been \\\"Divine Beings\\\" so it is less speculative and less spoilery (the existence of Outer Gods in this setting can be considered massive spoilers, after all). But alas, the page has been made and I don\\\'t know how to delete a page and create a new one in its place.
Overall, I will acknowledge your doubts about point 2, but if within 1 hour you can\\\'t provide a more convincing argument or a lore detail which suggests Deathbird\\\'s outer god being distinct with Destined Death, I will undo your edits in this page, the secondary characters page, and the enemies and bosses page.
The Staff is derived from Godwyn\\\'s power, borne from his half of the Cursemark of Death. This Cursemark in turn was a portion of the Rune of Death which Ranni stole from Maliketh\\\'s Black Blade. The Rune of Death itself in turn was also called Destined Death (Enia\\\'s words), and though she claimed it was plucked out of Golden Order since its creation, every other descriptions claim it once belonged to the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Maliketh defeated her.
In short, Godwyn\\\'s power is quite explicitly descended from Destined Death. This much is factual, no ifs or buts.
The staff buffs all Death Sorceries. Both Fia\\\'s Mist - which she learned from Godwyn - \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' Ghostflame Sorceries, which the Death Rite Birds use. Given Fromsoft did not change this even after several patches, and how GameplayAndStoryIntegration is often in full effect for most of Fromsoft\\\'s games, it\\\'s all but outright stated that they share a common origin.
The fact the Eclipse Greatshield could ward off Destined Death can be easily explained as one source counteracting itself; it is not without precedent as Radahn learned the gravity powers of the star spawns to block off more falling stars from landing onto the Lands Between. It is, unfortunately, no proof or indication that they are different powers competing.
As for Godskin Incantantions being purely Faith based while Death Sorceries involve Intelligence in addition to Faith, it is important to note Greater Will and Golden Order also have this: most Two Fingers and Erdtree Incantations are purely Faith based while Golden Order Fundamentalism also utilize Intelligence, yet all three are unambigiously derived from Greater Will. In short, Godskin Incantations being styled differently from Death Sorceries do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' prove they are different.
2. About Unalloyed Gold: While it is true Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is never even mentioned or found inside Farum Azula, the fact remains that the Dragonlord\\\'s chamber \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' able to channel its power, enough to outright purge the influence of Frenzied Flame from the Tarnished.
While the \\\'\\\'nature\\\'\\\' of the connection, and \\\'\\\'how much\\\'\\\' they are connected, are impossible to determine due to lack of information, it is \\\'\\\'undeniable\\\'\\\' a connection exists.
Combined with the other story breadcrumbs we have about outer gods (most prominently, as far as we know every power which can counteract an outer god is \\\'\\\'almost always\\\'\\\' born from an outer god), we can reasonably conclude the unalloyed gold is derived from the god whom the dragons used to serve, and this god is an outer god.
Of course, whether or not the conclusion is 100% certain is impossible to determine. We know almost nothing about the god whom Placidusax waited for; it\\\'s one of the reasons why another troper proposed the page for Outer Gods should have been \\\"Divine Beings\\\" so it is less speculative and less spoilery (the existence of Outer Gods in this setting can be considered massive spoilers, after all). But alas, the page has been made and I don\\\'t know how to delete a page and create a new one in its place.
Overall, I will acknowledge your doubts about point 2, but if within 1 hour you can\\\'t provide a more convincing argument or a lore detail which suggests Deathbird\\\'s outer god being distinct with Destined Death, I will undo your edits in this page, the secondary characters page, and the enemies and bosses page.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
1. About \
to:
1. About \\\"Death\\\" and related deities: Normally, I would agree with you on positing they might be different sources of Death-based powers... but one fact makes me lean \\\'\\\'really\\\'\\\' far into them sharing a common origin: Prince of Death\\\'s Staff.
The Staff is derived from Godwyn\\\'s power, borne from his half of the Cursemark of Death. This Cursemark in turn was a portion of the Rune of Death which Ranni stole from Maliketh\\\'s Black Blade. The Rune of Death itself in turn was also called Destined Death (Enia\\\'s words), and though she claimed it was plucked out of Golden Order since its creation, every other descriptions claim it once belonged to the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Maliketh defeated her.
In short, Godwyn\\\'s power is quite explicitly descended from Destined Death. This much is factual, no ifs or buts.
The staff buffs all Death Sorceries. Both Fia\\\'s Mist - which she learned from Godwyn - \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' Ghostflame Sorceries, which the Death Rite Birds use. Given Fromsoft did not change this even after several patches, and how GameplayAndStoryIntegration is often in full effect for most of Fromsoft\\\'s games, it\\\'s all but outright stated that they share a common origin.
The fact the Eclipse Greatshield could ward off Destined Death can be easily explained as one source counteracting itself; it is not without precedent as Radahn learned the gravity powers of the star spawns to block off more falling stars from landing onto the Lands Between. It is, unfortunately, no proof or indication that they are different powers competing.
As for Godskin Incantantions being purely Faith based while Death Sorceries involve Intelligence in addition to Faith, it is important to note Greater Will and Golden Order also have this: most Two Fingers and Erdtree Incantations are purely Faith based while Golden Order Fundamentalism also utilize Intelligence, yet all three are unambigiously derived from Greater Will. In short, Godskin Incantations being styled differently from Death Sorceries do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' prove they are different.
2. About Unalloyed Gold: While it is true Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is never even mentioned or found inside Farum Azula, the fact remains that the Dragonlord\\\'s chamber \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' able to channel its power, enough to outright purge the influence of Frenzied Flame from the Tarnished.
While the \\\'\\\'nature\\\'\\\' of the connection, and \\\'\\\'how much\\\'\\\' they are connected, are impossible to determine due to lack of information, it is \\\'\\\'undeniable\\\'\\\' a connection exists.
Combined with the other story breadcrumbs we have about outer gods (most prominently, as far as we know every power which can counteract an outer god is \\\'\\\'almost always\\\'\\\' born from an outer god), we can reasonably conclude the unalloyed gold is derived from the god whom the dragons used to serve, and this god is an outer god.
Of course, whether or not the conclusion is 100% certain is impossible to determine. We know almost nothing about the god whom Placidusax waited for; it\\\'s one of the reasons why another troper proposed the page for Outer Gods should have been \\\"Divine Beings\\\" so it is less speculative and less spoilery (the existence of Outer Gods in this setting can be considered massive spoilers, after all). But alas, the page has been made and I don\\\'t know how to delete a page and create a new one in its place.
Overall, I will acknowledge your doubts about point 2, but if within 1 hour you can\\\'t provide a more convincing argument or a lore detail which suggests Deathbird\\\'s outer god being distinct with Destined Death, I will undo your edits in this page, the secondary characters page, and the enemies and bosses page.
The Staff is derived from Godwyn\\\'s power, borne from his half of the Cursemark of Death. This Cursemark in turn was a portion of the Rune of Death which Ranni stole from Maliketh\\\'s Black Blade. The Rune of Death itself in turn was also called Destined Death (Enia\\\'s words), and though she claimed it was plucked out of Golden Order since its creation, every other descriptions claim it once belonged to the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Maliketh defeated her.
In short, Godwyn\\\'s power is quite explicitly descended from Destined Death. This much is factual, no ifs or buts.
The staff buffs all Death Sorceries. Both Fia\\\'s Mist - which she learned from Godwyn - \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' Ghostflame Sorceries, which the Death Rite Birds use. Given Fromsoft did not change this even after several patches, and how GameplayAndStoryIntegration is often in full effect for most of Fromsoft\\\'s games, it\\\'s all but outright stated that they share a common origin.
The fact the Eclipse Greatshield could ward off Destined Death can be easily explained as one source counteracting itself; it is not without precedent as Radahn learned the gravity powers of the star spawns to block off more falling stars from landing onto the Lands Between. It is, unfortunately, no proof or indication that they are different powers competing.
As for Godskin Incantantions being purely Faith based while Death Sorceries involve Intelligence in addition to Faith, it is important to note Greater Will and Golden Order also have this: most Two Fingers and Erdtree Incantations are purely Faith based while Golden Order Fundamentalism also utilize Intelligence, yet all three are unambigiously derived from Greater Will. In short, Godskin Incantations being styled differently from Death Sorceries do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' prove they are different.
2. About Unalloyed Gold: While it is true Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is never even mentioned or found inside Farum Azula, the fact remains that the Dragonlord\\\'s chamber \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' able to channel its power, enough to outright purge the influence of Frenzied Flame from the Tarnished.
While the \\\'\\\'nature\\\'\\\' of the connection, and \\\'\\\'how much\\\'\\\' they are connected, are impossible to determine due to lack of information, it is \\\'\\\'undeniable\\\'\\\' a connection exists.
Combined with the other story breadcrumbs we have about outer gods (most prominently, as far as we know every power which can counteract an outer god is \\\'\\\'almost always\\\'\\\' born from an outer god), we can reasonably conclude the unalloyed gold is derived from the god whom the dragons used to serve, and this god is an outer god.
Of course, whether or not the conclusion is 100% certain is impossible to determine. We know almost nothing about the god whom Placidusax waited for; it\\\'s one of the reasons why another troper proposed the page for Outer Gods should have been \\\"Divine Beings\\\" so it is less speculative and less spoilery (the existence of Outer Gods in this setting can be considered massive spoilers, after all). But alas, the page has been made and I don\\\'t know how to delete a page and create a new one in its place.
Overall, I will acknowledge your doubts about point 2, but if within 1 hour you can\\\'t provide a more convincing argument or a lore detail which suggests Deathbird\\\'s outer god being distinct with Destined Death, I will undo your edits in this page, the secondary characters page, and the enemies and bosses page.
Changed line(s) 1 from:
n
1. About \
to:
1. About \\\"Death\\\" and related deities: Normally, I would agree with you on positing they might be different sources of Death-based powers... but one fact makes me lean \\\'\\\'really\\\'\\\' far into them sharing a common origin: Prince of Death\\\'s Staff.
The Staff is derived from Godwyn\\\'s power, borne from his half of the Cursemark of Death. This Cursemark in turn was a portion of the Rune of Death which Ranni stole from Maliketh\\\'s Black Blade. The Rune of Death itself in turn was also called Destined Death (Enia\\\'s words), and though she claimed it was plucked out of Golden Order since its creation, every other descriptions claim it once belonged to the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Maliketh defeated her.
In short, Godwyn\\\'s power is quite explicitly descended from Destined Death. This much is factual, no ifs or buts.
The staff buffs all Death Sorceries. Both Fia\\\'s Mist - which she learned from Godwyn - \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' Ghostflame Sorceries, which the Death Rite Birds use. Given Fromsoft did not change this even after several patches, and how GameplayAndStoryIntegration is often in full effect for most of Fromsoft\\\'s games, it\\\'s all but outright stated that they share a common origin.
The fact the Eclipse Greatshield could ward off Destined Death can be easily explained as one source counteracting itself; it is not without precedent as Radahn learned the gravity powers of the star spawns to block off more falling stars from landing onto the Lands Between. It is, unfortunately, no proof or indication that they are different powers competing.
As for Godskin Incantantions being purely Faith based while Death Sorceries involve Intelligence in addition to Faith, it is important to note Greater Will and Golden Order also have this: most Two Fingers and Erdtree Incantations are purely Faith based while Golden Order Fundamentalism also utilize Intelligence, yet all three are unambigiously derived from Greater Will. In short, Godskin Incantations being styled differently from Death Sorceries do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' prove they are different.
2. About Unalloyed Gold: While it is true Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is never even mentioned or found inside Farum Azula, the fact remains that the Dragonlord\\\'s chamber \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' able to channel its power, enough to outright purge the influence of Frenzied Flame from the Tarnished.
While the \\\'\\\'nature\\\'\\\' of the connection, and \\\'\\\'how much\\\'\\\' they are connected, are impossible to determine due to lack of information, it is \\\'\\\'undeniable\\\'\\\' a connection exists.
Combined with the other story breadcrumbs we have about outer gods (most prominently, as far as we know every power which can counteract an outer god is \\\'\\\'almost always\\\'\\\' born from an outer god), we can reasonably conclude the unalloyed gold is derived from the god whom the dragons used to serve, and this god is an outer god.
Of course, whether or not the conclusion is 100% certain is impossible to determine. We know almost nothing about the god whom Placidusax waited for; it\\\'s one of the reasons why another troper proposed the page for Outer Gods should have been \\\"Divine Beings\\\" so it is less speculative and less spoilery (the existence of Outer Gods in this setting can be considered massive spoilers, after all). But alas, the page has been made and I don\\\'t know how to delete a page and create a new one in its place.
Overall, I will acknowledge your doubts about point 2, but if you can\\\'t provide a more convincing argument or a lore detail which suggests Deathbird\\\'s outer god being distinct with Destined Death, I will undo your edits in this page, the secondary characters page, and the enemies and bosses page.
The Staff is derived from Godwyn\\\'s power, borne from his half of the Cursemark of Death. This Cursemark in turn was a portion of the Rune of Death which Ranni stole from Maliketh\\\'s Black Blade. The Rune of Death itself in turn was also called Destined Death (Enia\\\'s words), and though she claimed it was plucked out of Golden Order since its creation, every other descriptions claim it once belonged to the Gloam-Eyed Queen before Maliketh defeated her.
In short, Godwyn\\\'s power is quite explicitly descended from Destined Death. This much is factual, no ifs or buts.
The staff buffs all Death Sorceries. Both Fia\\\'s Mist - which she learned from Godwyn - \\\'\\\'and\\\'\\\' Ghostflame Sorceries, which the Death Rite Birds use. Given Fromsoft did not change this even after several patches, and how GameplayAndStoryIntegration is often in full effect for most of Fromsoft\\\'s games, it\\\'s all but outright stated that they share a common origin.
The fact the Eclipse Greatshield could ward off Destined Death can be easily explained as one source counteracting itself; it is not without precedent as Radahn learned the gravity powers of the star spawns to block off more falling stars from landing onto the Lands Between. It is, unfortunately, no proof or indication that they are different powers competing.
As for Godskin Incantantions being purely Faith based while Death Sorceries involve Intelligence in addition to Faith, it is important to note Greater Will and Golden Order also have this: most Two Fingers and Erdtree Incantations are purely Faith based while Golden Order Fundamentalism also utilize Intelligence, yet all three are unambigiously derived from Greater Will. In short, Godskin Incantations being styled differently from Death Sorceries do \\\'\\\'not\\\'\\\' prove they are different.
2. About Unalloyed Gold: While it is true Miquella\\\'s Unalloyed Gold is never even mentioned or found inside Farum Azula, the fact remains that the Dragonlord\\\'s chamber \\\'\\\'is\\\'\\\' able to channel its power, enough to outright purge the influence of Frenzied Flame from the Tarnished.
While the \\\'\\\'nature\\\'\\\' of the connection, and \\\'\\\'how much\\\'\\\' they are connected, are impossible to determine due to lack of information, it is \\\'\\\'undeniable\\\'\\\' a connection exists.
Combined with the other story breadcrumbs we have about outer gods (most prominently, as far as we know every power which can counteract an outer god is \\\'\\\'almost always\\\'\\\' born from an outer god), we can reasonably conclude the unalloyed gold is derived from the god whom the dragons used to serve, and this god is an outer god.
Of course, whether or not the conclusion is 100% certain is impossible to determine. We know almost nothing about the god whom Placidusax waited for; it\\\'s one of the reasons why another troper proposed the page for Outer Gods should have been \\\"Divine Beings\\\" so it is less speculative and less spoilery (the existence of Outer Gods in this setting can be considered massive spoilers, after all). But alas, the page has been made and I don\\\'t know how to delete a page and create a new one in its place.
Overall, I will acknowledge your doubts about point 2, but if you can\\\'t provide a more convincing argument or a lore detail which suggests Deathbird\\\'s outer god being distinct with Destined Death, I will undo your edits in this page, the secondary characters page, and the enemies and bosses page.
