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Mimic1990
Current Version
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Okay to make this clear, I\'m not a fan of this game or the series and I have no real stake in this example being up. But since I\'ve been brought up, I\'ll add my two cents.
Truth is, this is EXACTLY how StrawmanHasAPoint works. A work is trying to make a strawman argument, but a lot of real world people believe that the strawman is making a good point, or even a better point than the actual protagonist. For an example from the SHAP page...
* According to Jewish legend, Myth/{{Lilith}} was the first woman in existence. She was created by God at the same time as Adam with the purpose of being his wife, but after she refused to [[StayInTheKitchen receive an unjust treatment in comparison to Adam\'s]], she was turned into a demon and kicked out of Heaven. While this tale fit with the Hebrew people\'s patriarchal society, due to ValuesDissonance, today Lilith has turned into a large symbol of feminism and generally viewed in a much more positive light.
So, how is this an InUniverse example? Oh, right, it\'s not. Literature/TheBible and everyone who believed in it at the time say Lilith was absolutely wrong, but today a lot of people think she was right.
And for the page image... does the comic itself go out of its way to show how dope isn\'t actually so bad? No, it doesn\'t. There is the argument that could be made of \
Truth is, this is EXACTLY how StrawmanHasAPoint works. A work is trying to make a strawman argument, but a lot of real world people believe that the strawman is making a good point, or even a better point than the actual protagonist. For an example from the SHAP page...
* According to Jewish legend, Myth/{{Lilith}} was the first woman in existence. She was created by God at the same time as Adam with the purpose of being his wife, but after she refused to [[StayInTheKitchen receive an unjust treatment in comparison to Adam\'s]], she was turned into a demon and kicked out of Heaven. While this tale fit with the Hebrew people\'s patriarchal society, due to ValuesDissonance, today Lilith has turned into a large symbol of feminism and generally viewed in a much more positive light.
So, how is this an InUniverse example? Oh, right, it\'s not. Literature/TheBible and everyone who believed in it at the time say Lilith was absolutely wrong, but today a lot of people think she was right.
And for the page image... does the comic itself go out of its way to show how dope isn\'t actually so bad? No, it doesn\'t. There is the argument that could be made of \
to:
[...]
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And for the page image... does the comic itself go out of its way to show how dope isn\'t actually so bad? No, it doesn\'t. There is the argument that could be made of \
to:
And for the page image... does the comic itself go out of its way to show how dope isn\\\'t actually so bad? No, it doesn\\\'t. There is the argument that could be made of \\\"Drake is saying it\\\'s wrong because it\\\'s illegal, while he\\\'s a vigilante\\\" but that\\\'s just the ad hominem fallacy at play. It doesn\\\'t address why \\\'\\\'the actual argument being made\\\'\\\' is the strawman \\\"having a point.\\\" He has a point because a lot of people think he has a point. That\\\'s why it counts.
This is EXACTLY how the trope works. It HAS ALWAYS BEEN how the trope works.
The only difference is that, in this case, the point that the strawman has is one that you personally disagree with. Therefore, it can not possibly have any validity in your mind.
I\\\'ll say this again. I\\\'ve never played this game and I don\\\'t want to play it. I don\\\'t care if the example is up on the page or not.
What I DO care about, is how you think you can just \\\'\\\'say\\\'\\\' things and they will become true by the power of wishful thinking and unicorn farts, and then you just shriek the words \\\"racism\\\" and \\\"xenophobia\\\" and shame everyone into being quiet and letting you win.
I\\\'m not trying to be unreasonable. Yes, I know that most illegal immigrants are perfectly rational people who are just looking for a better life, and who have no intention of doing anything bad once they get here. In fact, according to the state of Texas (the only state that checks the immigration status of people who are arrested for crimes) the rate per capita of crimes committed is HIGHER for natural-born citizens than for illegal immigrants. I\\\'m not saying everyone who comes up into my country from Mexico is an evil murderer drug-dealer. No one is saying that.
But I also know that they DO take from our society. I know that when they get sick our hospitals are ethically bound to treat them at zero cost. I\\\'ve known personally people in the construction field who lost their job because someone realized they could hire an immigrant - illegal or otherwise - and pay them less than a quarter what they\\\'d have to pay a natural-born citizen. I know that in certain places in my country illegal immigrants can even receive welfare benefits in order to make money without having to work at all. I know that while it\\\'s certainly true that most immigrants are not criminals or terrorists, some are and having no ability whatsoever to check on these people is absolutely a freaking problem. And I know that since they obviously don\\\'t pay any taxes, they give nothing back to our society. This is NOT some Flat Earth style conspiracy theory. This is all not only provably true, it\\\'s also just basic common sense.
This has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia. It\\\'s about \\\'\\\'being loyal to your own\\\'\\\' and frankly it\\\'s absolutely insane to me that any rational person could possibly think otherwise. But honestly, it also seems pretty clear to me that, on some level deep down that I know you\\\'ll never admit to, \\\'\\\'even you\\\'\\\' know that you\\\'re wrong. That\\\'s why you\\\'re trying so hard to selectively redefine the trope so that in this one instance it won\\\'t count anyway. Because you know that if you had to \\\'\\\'actually prove\\\'\\\' that this strawman has no point whatsoever, then you wouldn\\\'t be able to.
And I think what really upsets me the most about it is that \\\'\\\'racism IS actually a serious issue\\\'\\\', and you think you\\\'re taking on that issue and fighting against it but you\\\'re actually doing the opposite. By invoking that issue for every little thing as a \\\"get out of having to provide a convincing logical argument free\\\" card, what you\\\'re really doing is downplaying the real issue that is racism and making it into something that people don\\\'t take seriously. Not to mention you \\\'\\\'create\\\'\\\' racists who wouldn\\\'t otherwise be racist because [[ThenLetMeBeEvil they realize that\\\'s what they\\\'ll always be in your eyes anyway so they might as well just go ahead and be one for real]]. And on top of that, if you\\\'re actually a legal citizen of your country, then I don\\\'t get it anyway because the thing that you\\\'re going to such insane lengths to fight for is something \\\'\\\'that is just as bad for you as it is for me or anyone else\\\'\\\'.
Again, I\\\'ll say this: I don\\\'t care if the example is up. But I am NOT going to let you call me a racist idiot with absolutely no proof of that and then just walk away.
This is EXACTLY how the trope works. It HAS ALWAYS BEEN how the trope works.
The only difference is that, in this case, the point that the strawman has is one that you personally disagree with. Therefore, it can not possibly have any validity in your mind.
I\\\'ll say this again. I\\\'ve never played this game and I don\\\'t want to play it. I don\\\'t care if the example is up on the page or not.
What I DO care about, is how you think you can just \\\'\\\'say\\\'\\\' things and they will become true by the power of wishful thinking and unicorn farts, and then you just shriek the words \\\"racism\\\" and \\\"xenophobia\\\" and shame everyone into being quiet and letting you win.
I\\\'m not trying to be unreasonable. Yes, I know that most illegal immigrants are perfectly rational people who are just looking for a better life, and who have no intention of doing anything bad once they get here. In fact, according to the state of Texas (the only state that checks the immigration status of people who are arrested for crimes) the rate per capita of crimes committed is HIGHER for natural-born citizens than for illegal immigrants. I\\\'m not saying everyone who comes up into my country from Mexico is an evil murderer drug-dealer. No one is saying that.
But I also know that they DO take from our society. I know that when they get sick our hospitals are ethically bound to treat them at zero cost. I\\\'ve known personally people in the construction field who lost their job because someone realized they could hire an immigrant - illegal or otherwise - and pay them less than a quarter what they\\\'d have to pay a natural-born citizen. I know that in certain places in my country illegal immigrants can even receive welfare benefits in order to make money without having to work at all. I know that while it\\\'s certainly true that most immigrants are not criminals or terrorists, some are and having no ability whatsoever to check on these people is absolutely a freaking problem. And I know that since they obviously don\\\'t pay any taxes, they give nothing back to our society. This is NOT some Flat Earth style conspiracy theory. This is all not only provably true, it\\\'s also just basic common sense.
This has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia. It\\\'s about \\\'\\\'being loyal to your own\\\'\\\' and frankly it\\\'s absolutely insane to me that any rational person could possibly think otherwise. But honestly, it also seems pretty clear to me that, on some level deep down that I know you\\\'ll never admit to, \\\'\\\'even you\\\'\\\' know that you\\\'re wrong. That\\\'s why you\\\'re trying so hard to selectively redefine the trope so that in this one instance it won\\\'t count anyway. Because you know that if you had to \\\'\\\'actually prove\\\'\\\' that this strawman has no point whatsoever, then you wouldn\\\'t be able to.
And I think what really upsets me the most about it is that \\\'\\\'racism IS actually a serious issue\\\'\\\', and you think you\\\'re taking on that issue and fighting against it but you\\\'re actually doing the opposite. By invoking that issue for every little thing as a \\\"get out of having to provide a convincing logical argument free\\\" card, what you\\\'re really doing is downplaying the real issue that is racism and making it into something that people don\\\'t take seriously. Not to mention you \\\'\\\'create\\\'\\\' racists who wouldn\\\'t otherwise be racist because [[ThenLetMeBeEvil they realize that\\\'s what they\\\'ll always be in your eyes anyway so they might as well just go ahead and be one for real]]. And on top of that, if you\\\'re actually a legal citizen of your country, then I don\\\'t get it anyway because the thing that you\\\'re going to such insane lengths to fight for is something \\\'\\\'that is just as bad for you as it is for me or anyone else\\\'\\\'.
Again, I\\\'ll say this: I don\\\'t care if the example is up. But I am NOT going to let you call me a racist idiot with absolutely no proof of that and then just walk away.
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And for the page image... does the comic itself go out of its way to show how dope isn\'t actually so bad? No, it doesn\'t. There is the argument that could be made of \
to:
And for the page image... does the comic itself go out of its way to show how dope isn\\\'t actually so bad? No, it doesn\\\'t. There is the argument that could be made of \\\"Drake is saying it\\\'s wrong because it\\\'s illegal, while he\\\'s a vigilante\\\" but that\\\'s just the ad hominem fallacy at play. It doesn\\\'t address why \\\'\\\'the actual argument being made\\\'\\\' is the strawman \\\"having a point.\\\" He has a point because a lot of people think he has a point. That\\\'s why it counts.
This is EXACTLY how the trope works. It HAS ALWAYS BEEN how the trope works.
The only difference is that, in this case, the point that the strawman has is one that you personally disagree with. Therefore, it can not possibly have any validity in your mind.
I\\\'ll say this again. I\\\'ve never played this game and I don\\\'t want to play it. I don\\\'t care if the example is up on the page or not.
What I DO care about, is how you think you can just \\\'\\\'say\\\'\\\' things and they will become true by the power of wishful thinking and unicorn farts, and then you just shriek the words \\\"racism\\\" and \\\"xenophobia\\\" and shame everyone into being quiet and letting you win.
I\\\'m not trying to be unreasonable. Yes, I know that most illegal immigrants are perfectly rational people who are just looking for a better life, and who have no intention of doing anything bad once they get here. In fact, according to the state of Texas (the only state that checks the immigration status of people who are arrested for crimes) the rate per capita of crimes committed is HIGHER for natural-born citizens than for illegal immigrants. I\\\'m not saying everyone who comes up into my country from Mexico is an evil murderer drug-dealer. No one is saying that.
But I also know that they DO take from our society. I know that when they get sick our hospitals are ethically bound to treat them at zero cost. I\\\'ve known personally people in the construction field who lost their job because someone realized they could hire an immigrant - illegal or otherwise - and pay them less than a quarter what they\\\'d have to pay a natural-born citizen. I know that in certain places in my country illegal immigrants can even receive welfare benefits in order to make money without having to work at all. I know that while it\\\'s certainly true that most immigrants are not criminals or terrorists, some are and having no ability whatsoever to check on these people is absolutely a freaking problem. And I know that since they obviously don\\\'t pay any taxes, they give nothing back to our society. This is NOT some Flat Earth style conspiracy theory. This is all not only provably true, it\\\'s also just basic common sense.
This has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia. It\\\'s about \\\'\\\'being loyal to your own\\\'\\\' and frankly it\\\'s absolutely insane to me that any rational person could possibly think otherwise. But honestly, it also seems pretty clear to me that, on some level deep down that I know you\\\'ll never admit to, \\\'\\\'even you\\\'\\\' know that you\\\'re wrong. That\\\'s why you\\\'re trying so hard to selectively redefine the trope so that in this one instance it won\\\'t count anyway. Because you know that if you had to \\\'\\\'actually prove\\\'\\\' that this strawman has no point whatsoever, then you wouldn\\\'t be able to.
Again, I\\\'ll say this: I don\\\'t care if the example is up. But I am NOT going to let you call me a racist idiot with absolutely no proof of that and then just walk away.
This is EXACTLY how the trope works. It HAS ALWAYS BEEN how the trope works.
The only difference is that, in this case, the point that the strawman has is one that you personally disagree with. Therefore, it can not possibly have any validity in your mind.
I\\\'ll say this again. I\\\'ve never played this game and I don\\\'t want to play it. I don\\\'t care if the example is up on the page or not.
What I DO care about, is how you think you can just \\\'\\\'say\\\'\\\' things and they will become true by the power of wishful thinking and unicorn farts, and then you just shriek the words \\\"racism\\\" and \\\"xenophobia\\\" and shame everyone into being quiet and letting you win.
I\\\'m not trying to be unreasonable. Yes, I know that most illegal immigrants are perfectly rational people who are just looking for a better life, and who have no intention of doing anything bad once they get here. In fact, according to the state of Texas (the only state that checks the immigration status of people who are arrested for crimes) the rate per capita of crimes committed is HIGHER for natural-born citizens than for illegal immigrants. I\\\'m not saying everyone who comes up into my country from Mexico is an evil murderer drug-dealer. No one is saying that.
But I also know that they DO take from our society. I know that when they get sick our hospitals are ethically bound to treat them at zero cost. I\\\'ve known personally people in the construction field who lost their job because someone realized they could hire an immigrant - illegal or otherwise - and pay them less than a quarter what they\\\'d have to pay a natural-born citizen. I know that in certain places in my country illegal immigrants can even receive welfare benefits in order to make money without having to work at all. I know that while it\\\'s certainly true that most immigrants are not criminals or terrorists, some are and having no ability whatsoever to check on these people is absolutely a freaking problem. And I know that since they obviously don\\\'t pay any taxes, they give nothing back to our society. This is NOT some Flat Earth style conspiracy theory. This is all not only provably true, it\\\'s also just basic common sense.
This has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia. It\\\'s about \\\'\\\'being loyal to your own\\\'\\\' and frankly it\\\'s absolutely insane to me that any rational person could possibly think otherwise. But honestly, it also seems pretty clear to me that, on some level deep down that I know you\\\'ll never admit to, \\\'\\\'even you\\\'\\\' know that you\\\'re wrong. That\\\'s why you\\\'re trying so hard to selectively redefine the trope so that in this one instance it won\\\'t count anyway. Because you know that if you had to \\\'\\\'actually prove\\\'\\\' that this strawman has no point whatsoever, then you wouldn\\\'t be able to.
Again, I\\\'ll say this: I don\\\'t care if the example is up. But I am NOT going to let you call me a racist idiot with absolutely no proof of that and then just walk away.
Changed line(s) 9 from:
n
And for the page image... does the comic itself go out of its way to show how dope isn\'t actually so bad? No, it doesn\'t. There is the argument that could be made of \
to:
And for the page image... does the comic itself go out of its way to show how dope isn\\\'t actually so bad? No, it doesn\\\'t. There is the argument that could be made of \\\"Drake is saying it\\\'s wrong because it\\\'s illegal, while he\\\'s a vigilante\\\" but that\\\'s just the ad hominem fallacy at play. It doesn\\\'t address why \\\'\\\'the actual argument being made\\\'\\\' is the strawman \\\"having a point.\\\" He has a point because a lot of people think he has a point. That\\\'s why it counts.
This is EXACTLY how the trope works. It HAS ALWAYS BEEN how the trope works.
The only difference is that, in this case, the point that the strawman has is one that you personally disagree with. Therefore, it can not possibly have any validity in your mind.
I\\\'ll say this again. I\\\'ve never played this game and I don\\\'t want to play it. I don\\\'t care if the example is up on the page or not.
What I DO care about, is how you think you can just \\\'\\\'say\\\'\\\' things and they will become true by the power of wishful thinking and unicorn farts, and then you just shriek the words \\\"racism\\\" and \\\"xenophobia\\\" and shame everyone into being quiet and letting you win.
I\\\'m not trying to be unreasonable. Yes, I know that most illegal immigrants are perfectly rational people who are just looking for a better life, and who have no intention of doing anything bad once they get here. In fact, according to the state of Texas (the only state that checks the immigration status of people who are arrested for crimes) the rate per capita of crimes committed is HIGHER for natural-born citizens than for illegal immigrants. I\\\'m not saying everyone who comes up into my country from Mexico is an evil murderer drug-dealer. No one is saying that.
But I also know that they DO take from our society. I know that when they get sick our hospitals are ethically bound to treat them at zero cost. I\\\'ve known personally people in the construction field who lost their job because someone realized they could hire an immigrant - illegal or otherwise - and pay them less than a quarter what they\\\'d have to pay a natural-born citizen. I know that in certain places in my country illegal immigrants can even receive welfare benefits in order to make money without having to work at all. I know that while it\\\'s certainly true that most immigrants are not criminals or terrorists, some are and having no ability whatsoever to check on these people is absolutely a freaking problem. And I know that since they obviously don\\\'t pay any taxes, they give nothing back to our society. This is NOT some Flat Earth style conspiracy theory. This is all not only provably true, it\\\'s also just basic common sense.
This has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia. It\\\'s about \\\'\\\'being loyal to your own\\\'\\\' and frankly it\\\'s absolutely insane to me that any rational person could possibly think otherwise. But honestly, it also seems pretty clear to me that, on some level deep down that I know you\\\'ll never admit to, \\\'\\\'even you\\\'\\\' know that you\\\'re wrong. That\\\'s why you\\\'re trying so hard to selectively redefine the trope so that in this one instance it won\\\'t count anyway. Because you know that if you had to \\\'\\\'actually prove\\\'\\\' that this strawman has no point whatsoever, then you wouldn\\\'t be able to.
This is EXACTLY how the trope works. It HAS ALWAYS BEEN how the trope works.
The only difference is that, in this case, the point that the strawman has is one that you personally disagree with. Therefore, it can not possibly have any validity in your mind.
I\\\'ll say this again. I\\\'ve never played this game and I don\\\'t want to play it. I don\\\'t care if the example is up on the page or not.
What I DO care about, is how you think you can just \\\'\\\'say\\\'\\\' things and they will become true by the power of wishful thinking and unicorn farts, and then you just shriek the words \\\"racism\\\" and \\\"xenophobia\\\" and shame everyone into being quiet and letting you win.
I\\\'m not trying to be unreasonable. Yes, I know that most illegal immigrants are perfectly rational people who are just looking for a better life, and who have no intention of doing anything bad once they get here. In fact, according to the state of Texas (the only state that checks the immigration status of people who are arrested for crimes) the rate per capita of crimes committed is HIGHER for natural-born citizens than for illegal immigrants. I\\\'m not saying everyone who comes up into my country from Mexico is an evil murderer drug-dealer. No one is saying that.
But I also know that they DO take from our society. I know that when they get sick our hospitals are ethically bound to treat them at zero cost. I\\\'ve known personally people in the construction field who lost their job because someone realized they could hire an immigrant - illegal or otherwise - and pay them less than a quarter what they\\\'d have to pay a natural-born citizen. I know that in certain places in my country illegal immigrants can even receive welfare benefits in order to make money without having to work at all. I know that while it\\\'s certainly true that most immigrants are not criminals or terrorists, some are and having no ability whatsoever to check on these people is absolutely a freaking problem. And I know that since they obviously don\\\'t pay any taxes, they give nothing back to our society. This is NOT some Flat Earth style conspiracy theory. This is all not only provably true, it\\\'s also just basic common sense.
This has absolutely nothing to do with xenophobia. It\\\'s about \\\'\\\'being loyal to your own\\\'\\\' and frankly it\\\'s absolutely insane to me that any rational person could possibly think otherwise. But honestly, it also seems pretty clear to me that, on some level deep down that I know you\\\'ll never admit to, \\\'\\\'even you\\\'\\\' know that you\\\'re wrong. That\\\'s why you\\\'re trying so hard to selectively redefine the trope so that in this one instance it won\\\'t count anyway. Because you know that if you had to \\\'\\\'actually prove\\\'\\\' that this strawman has no point whatsoever, then you wouldn\\\'t be able to.
