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Discussion History Monster / Disney

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[004] Wyldchyld Current Version
7th Oct '19 at 04:07:57 PM
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Okay, Cinder\'s CryForTheDevil entry was a bit iffy (the last two sentences are the main problem). As I\'d seen in the past the CompleteMonster thread declare certain CM characters ineligible for CFTD, I took the entry over there to ask for advice (my suggestion was just to change the last two sentences). The immediate response from several people was that the entry was invalid and should be removed.
to:
Okay, Cinder\\\'s CryForTheDevil entry was a bit iffy. As I\\\'d seen in the past the CompleteMonster thread declare CM characters ineligible for CFTD, I took the entry over there to ask for advice (my suggestion was just to change the last two sentences). The immediate response from several people was that the entry was invalid and should be removed. As a result, I removed the entry.
Changed line(s) 3 from:
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As a result, I removed the entry. However, the CM thread is very fast moving and hidden in some longer posts were a couple of easy-to-miss comments by people who wanted the CFTD entry to stay. Given the CM thread\'s inconsistent approach to the subject of CM characters with this trope, I\'m happy to revisit the entry here and just deal with my original issue with the write-up. As the History Page shows, I\'ve been a contributor to the content of the CFTD trope and am happy for it to remain on the YMMV page.
to:
However, the CM thread is very fast moving and hidden in some longer posts were a couple of easy-to-miss comments by people who wanted the CFTD entry to stay. Given the CM thread\\\'s inconsistency on this subject, I\\\'m happy to revisit the entry here and just deal with my original issue with the write-up. As the History Page shows, I\\\'ve been a contributor to the content of the CFTD trope and am happy for it to remain on the YMMV page.
Changed line(s) 10 from:
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* CryForTheDevil: There\'s been unexpected sympathy for Cinder\'s sorry state at the start of Volume 4. She has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper. What was once a strong, powerful, commanding villain is currently no more than a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although a source of mockery to the rest of Salem\'s followers, Salem considers her to be absolutely vital to the success of her plans. Because she has a crippling weakness, she is being forced to stay by Salem\'s side until she heals. It\'s clear from her reaction to this that she had no idea this is what she was signing up for. This only grew when we got to see her Salem nearly killing her in training, and the horror on her face when the last of Tyrian\'s sanity snaps and he begins gleefully dismembering a Grimm. Of course, the final shot of the volume was her coldly destroying a projection of a surrendering Ruby, so she\'s not \'\'entirely\'\' sympathetic. Indeed, \
to:
* CryForTheDevil: There\\\'s been unexpected sympathy for Cinder\\\'s sorry state at the start of Volume 4. She has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper. What was once a strong, powerful, commanding villain is currently no more than a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although a source of mockery to the rest of Salem\\\'s followers, Salem considers her to be absolutely vital to the success of her plans. Because she has a crippling weakness, she is being forced to stay by Salem\\\'s side until she heals. It\\\'s clear from her reaction to this that she had no idea this is what she was signing up for. This only grew when we got to see her Salem nearly killing her in training, and the horror on her face when the last of Tyrian\\\'s sanity snaps and he begins gleefully dismembering a Grimm. Of course, the final shot of the volume was her coldly destroying a projection of a surrendering Ruby, so she\\\'s not \\\'\\\'entirely\\\'\\\' sympathetic. Indeed, \\\"The More The Merrier\\\" had Cinder back in action, showing her to be cruel and callous as ever in her mockery of Jaune\\\'s loss and impaling Weiss just to spite him further.]]

----

Suggested Rewrite:
* CryForTheDevil: Volume 4 generates some unexpected sympathy for Cinder, revealing she has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper; having been strong, powerful, and commanding in Volumes 2-3, Volume 4 reduces her to a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although mocked by Salem\\\'s other subordinates, Salem regards Cinder as vital to the success of her plans. She forces Cinder to sit out Volume 4, remaining by her side to heal and train. When Salem reveals that Cinder has a crippling weakness to Ruby\\\'s abilities, Cinder\\\'s reaction makes it clear she didn\\\'t know what she was signing up for, something emphasised further by her absolute horror when Tyrian descends into insanity in front of her and maniacally tears a Grimm to shreds. Volume 5 ends this state when she returns to the front lines, her confidence, cruelty and callousness restored.]]
[003] Wyldchyld
7th Oct '19 at 04:06:13 PM
Changed line(s) 3 from:
n
As a result, I removed the entry. However, the CM thread is very fast moving and hidden in some longer posts were a couple of easy-to-miss comments by people who wanted the CFTD entry to stay. The CM thread also gave contradictory advice on whether CFTD should be a case-by-case basis for CM characters, or whether the CM trope should never factor in at all.
to:
As a result, I removed the entry. However, the CM thread is very fast moving and hidden in some longer posts were a couple of easy-to-miss comments by people who wanted the CFTD entry to stay. Given the CM thread\\\'s inconsistent approach to the subject of CM characters with this trope, I\\\'m happy to revisit the entry here and just deal with my original issue with the write-up. As the History Page shows, I\\\'ve been a contributor to the content of the CFTD trope and am happy for it to remain on the YMMV page.
Changed line(s) 5 from:
n
Given that the CM thread can\'t make up its mind how it\'s handling CFTD for CM characters, I\'m happy to revisit the entry here and just deal with my original issue with the write-up, which is the last two sentences. As the History Page shows, I\'ve been a contributor to the content of the CFTD trope and am happy for it to remain on the YMMV page.
to:
What I would suggest is removing the final two sentences, clean up its focus on Volume 4 and remove any references to outdated \\\'current\\\' situations. Below I\\\'ve put the original entry first and the suggested revamp second.
Changed line(s) 7 from:
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What I would suggest is removing the final two sentences. The entry is already clear that it\'s solely about Volume 4. It just needs a slight clean-up to keep it on focus and remove any references to outdated \'current\' situations. Below I\'ve put the original entry first and the suggested revamp second.
to:
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Original Entry:
Changed line(s) 8 from:
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* CryForTheDevil: There\\\'s been unexpected sympathy for Cinder\\\'s sorry state at the start of Volume 4. She has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper. What was once a strong, powerful, commanding villain is currently no more than a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although a source of mockery to the rest of Salem\\\'s followers, Salem considers her to be absolutely vital to the success of her plans. Because she has a crippling weakness, she is being forced to stay by Salem\\\'s side until she heals. It\\\'s clear from her reaction to this that she had no idea this is what she was signing up for. This only grew when we got to see her Salem nearly killing her in training, and the horror on her face when the last of Tyrian\\\'s sanity snaps and he begins gleefully dismembering a Grimm. Of course, the final shot of the volume was her coldly destroying a projection of a surrendering Ruby, so she\\\'s not \\\'\\\'entirely\\\'\\\' sympathetic. Indeed, \\\"The More The Merrier\\\" had Cinder back in action, showing her to be cruel and callous as ever in her mockery of Jaune\\\'s loss and impaling Weiss just to spite him further.]]
Changed line(s) 9 from:
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Changed line(s) 11 from:
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----
Original Entry:

* CryForTheDevil: There\'s been unexpected sympathy for Cinder\'s sorry state at the start of Volume 4. She has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper. What was once a strong, powerful, commanding villain is currently no more than a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although a source of mockery to the rest of Salem\'s followers, Salem considers her to be absolutely vital to the success of her plans. Because she has a crippling weakness, she is being forced to stay by Salem\'s side until she heals. It\'s clear from her reaction to this that she had no idea this is what she was signing up for. This only grew when we got to see her Salem nearly killing her in training, and the horror on her face when the last of Tyrian\'s sanity snaps and he begins gleefully dismembering a Grimm. Of course, the final shot of the volume was her coldly destroying a projection of a surrendering Ruby, so she\'s not \'\'entirely\'\' sympathetic. Indeed, \
to:
Suggested Rewrite:
* CryForTheDevil: Volume 4 generates some unexpected sympathy for Cinder, revealing she has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper; having been strong, powerful, and commanding in Volumes 2-3, Volume 4 reduces her to a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although mocked by Salem\\\'s other subordinates, Salem regards Cinder as vital to the success of her plans. She forces Cinder to sit out Volume 4, remaining by her side to heal and train. When Salem reveals that Cinder has a crippling weakness to Ruby\\\'s abilities, Cinder\\\'s reaction makes it clear she didn\\\'t know what she was signing up for, something emphasised further by her absolute horror when Tyrian descends into insanity in front of her and maniacally tears a Grimm to shreds. Volume 5 ends this state when she returns to the front lines, her confidence, cruelty and callousness restored.]]
[002] Wyldchyld
7th Oct '19 at 03:57:04 PM
Changed line(s) 15 from:
n
* CryForTheDevil: There\'s been unexpected sympathy for Cinder\'s sorry state at the start of Volume 4. She has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper. What was once a strong, powerful, commanding villain is currently no more than a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although a source of mockery to the rest of Salem\'s followers, Salem considers her to be absolutely vital to the success of her plans. Because she has a crippling weakness, she is being forced to stay by Salem\'s side until she heals. It\'s clear from her reaction to this that she had no idea this is what she was signing up for. This only grew when we got to see her Salem nearly killing her in training, and the horror on her face when the last of Tyrian\'s sanity snaps and he begins gleefully dismembering a Grimm. Of course, the final shot of the volume was her coldly destroying a projection of a surrendering Ruby, so she\'s not \'\'entirely\'\' sympathetic. Indeed, \
to:
* CryForTheDevil: There\\\'s been unexpected sympathy for Cinder\\\'s sorry state at the start of Volume 4. She has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper. What was once a strong, powerful, commanding villain is currently no more than a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although a source of mockery to the rest of Salem\\\'s followers, Salem considers her to be absolutely vital to the success of her plans. Because she has a crippling weakness, she is being forced to stay by Salem\\\'s side until she heals. It\\\'s clear from her reaction to this that she had no idea this is what she was signing up for. This only grew when we got to see her Salem nearly killing her in training, and the horror on her face when the last of Tyrian\\\'s sanity snaps and he begins gleefully dismembering a Grimm. Of course, the final shot of the volume was her coldly destroying a projection of a surrendering Ruby, so she\\\'s not \\\'\\\'entirely\\\'\\\' sympathetic. Indeed, \\\"The More The Merrier\\\" had Cinder back in action, showing her to be cruel and callous as ever in her mockery of Jaune\\\'s loss and impaling Weiss just to spite him further.]]

----

Suggested Rewrite:
* CryForTheDevil: Volume 4 generates some unexpected sympathy for Cinder, revealing she has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper; having been strong, powerful, and commanding in Volumes 2-3, Volume 4 reduces her to a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although mocked by Salem\\\'s other subordinates, Salem regards Cinder as vital to the success of her plans. She forces Cinder to sit out Volume 4, remaining by her side to heal and train. When Salem reveals that Cinder has a crippling weakness to Ruby\\\'s abilities, Cinder\\\'s reaction makes it clear she didn\\\'t know what she was signing up for, something emphasised further by her absolute horror when Tyrian descends into insanity in front of her and maniacally tears a Grimm to shreds. Volume 5 ends this state when she returns to the front lines, her confidence, cruelty and callousness restored.]]
[001] Wyldchyld
7th Oct '19 at 03:53:34 PM
Changed line(s) 15 from:
n
* CryForTheDevil: There\'s been unexpected sympathy for Cinder\'s sorry state at the start of Volume 4. She has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper. What was once a strong, powerful, commanding villain is currently no more than a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although a source of mockery to the rest of Salem\'s followers, Salem considers her to be absolutely vital to the success of her plans. Because she has a crippling weakness, she is being forced to stay by Salem\'s side until she heals. It\'s clear from her reaction to this that she had no idea this is what she was signing up for. This only grew when we got to see her Salem nearly killing her in training, and the horror on her face when the last of Tyrian\'s sanity snaps and he begins gleefully dismembering a Grimm. Of course, the final shot of the volume was her coldly destroying a projection of a surrendering Ruby, so she\'s not \'\'entirely\'\' sympathetic. Indeed, \
to:
* CryForTheDevil: There\\\'s been unexpected sympathy for Cinder\\\'s sorry state at the start of Volume 4. She has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper. What was once a strong, powerful, commanding villain is currently no more than a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although a source of mockery to the rest of Salem\\\'s followers, Salem considers her to be absolutely vital to the success of her plans. Because she has a crippling weakness, she is being forced to stay by Salem\\\'s side until she heals. It\\\'s clear from her reaction to this that she had no idea this is what she was signing up for. This only grew when we got to see her Salem nearly killing her in training, and the horror on her face when the last of Tyrian\\\'s sanity snaps and he begins gleefully dismembering a Grimm. Of course, the final shot of the volume was her coldly destroying a projection of a surrendering Ruby, so she\\\'s not \\\'\\\'entirely\\\'\\\' sympathetic. Indeed, \\\"The More The Merrier\\\" had Cinder back in action, showing her to be cruel and callous as ever in her mockery of Jaune\\\'s loss and impaling Weiss just to spite him further.]]

----

Suggested Rewrite:
* CryForTheDevil: Volume 4 generates some unexpected sympathy for Cinder, revealing she has lost an eye, is badly scarred and struggles to speak, managing only a faint whisper; having been strong, powerful, and commanding in Volumes 2-3, Volume 4 reduces her to a broken wreck. [[spoiler:Although mocked by Salem\\\'s other subordinates, Salem regards Cinder as vital to the success of her plans. She forces Cinder to sit out Volume 4, remaining by her side to heal and train. When Salem reveals that Cinder has a crippling weakness to Ruby\\\'s abilities, Cinder\\\'s reaction makes it clear she didn\\\'t know what she was signing up for, something emphasised further by her absolute horror when Tyrian descends into insanity in front of her and maniacally tears a Grimm to shreds. Cinder\\\'s return to the front lines in Volume 5 also sees the return of her confidence, cruelty and callousness.]]

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