Your previous arguments on the first example read like you were saying that Voldemort's course of action upon finding Sirius would have been to kill him, in order to force anyone he'd told about the location of the Potter's residence - if there was anyone other than Dumbledore, as you seem to be assuming - to become a Secret Keeper, thus making it easier for Voldemort to find the place. I pointed out that that probably wouldn't be the case, and explained how Sirius's plan therefore wouldn't have been of much help in the end, and how it gave Voldemort another way of finding the Potters.
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Your previous arguments on the first example read like you were saying that Voldemort\'s course of action upon finding Sirius would have been to kill him, in order to force anyone he\'d told about the location of the Potter residence - if there was anyone other than Dumbledore, as you seem to be assuming - to become a Secret Keeper, thus making it easier for Voldemort to find the place. I pointed out that that probably wouldn\'t be the case, and explained how Sirius\'s plan therefore wouldn\'t have been of much help in the end, and how it gave Voldemort another way of finding the Potters.
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As for your other arguments, evidence points to Sirius not being very skilled at Occlumency. If he did know how to use it, you'd think he would have offered to teach Harry himself in the fifth book, rather than leaving him at the mercy of Snape. And with regards to the Veritaserum antidote, it's not like Voldemort would allow Sirius to use it if he captured him, or that Sirius would be able to trick Voldemort and not take it, as happened with Harry and Umbridge. And Sirius evidently didn't modify his memories of changing the Secret Keeper, or he would never have known about it in the present day. I'll acknowledge the possibility that Voldemort could fail to gain any useful information from Sirius - i.e. If Sirius manages to off himself before Voldemort can question him - but I'm not going to ignore the possibility that Sirius might not be able to conceal his secrets from Voldemort.
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As for your other arguments, evidence points to Sirius not being very skilled at Occlumency. If he did know how to use it to a degree that he could resist Voldemort, you\'d think he would have taught Harry in the fifth book, rather than leaving him at the mercy of Snape. And with regards to the Veritaserum antidote, it\'s not like Voldemort would allow Sirius to use it if he captured him, or that Sirius would be able to trick Voldemort and not take it, as happened with Harry and Umbridge. And Sirius evidently didn\'t modify his memories of changing the Secret Keeper, or he would never have known about it in the present day. I\'ll acknowledge the possibility that Voldemort could fail to gain any useful information from Sirius - i.e. If Sirius manages to off himself before Voldemort can question him - but I\'m not going to ignore the possibility that Sirius might not be able to conceal his secrets from Voldemort.
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I know that making Sirius the Secret Keeper wasn't the smartest move at all, given the Fidelius Charm
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I know that making Sirius the Secret Keeper wasn\'t the smartest move at all, given the Fidelius Charm \"rules\" by the end of the series, but that example\'s already up here.
For the second point, I never said that side-along apparition worked in the Hogsmeade case. My point was, they tried it soon after they realised they were screwed, without it occurring to them that their enemies might have taken measures to prevent them doing so. Yet they didn\'t do so when the Snatchers appeared. Also, from the Snatchers announcing their presence to them storming into the tent, the trio had several seconds in which to think about trying side-along apparition. Truth be told, to me that scene came off as the trio being passed the IdiotBall to move the plot along; if they had disapparated before the Snatchers could grab them, they wouldn\'t have met Ollivander and Griphook in Malfoy Manor, or learned about the Horcrux in the Lestrange bank vault. That\'s why I put the example up in the first place. If they had just tried apparating out, and it failed, the example wouldn\'t have gone up.
And yes, side-along apparition didn\'t work out too well in the Ministry case, but that was more due to the trio\'s lack of planning rather than their escape method, as I explained in one of my examples.
Your previous arguments on the first example read like you were saying that Voldemort's course of action upon finding Sirius would have been to kill him, in order to force anyone he'd told about the location of the Potter's residence - if there was anyone other than Dumbledore, as you seem to be assuming - to become a Secret Keeper, thus making it easier for Voldemort to find the place. I pointed out that that probably wouldn't be the case, and explained how Sirius's plan therefore wouldn't have been of much help in the end, and how it gave Voldemort another way of finding the Potters.
to:
Your previous arguments on the first example read like you were saying that Voldemort\'s course of action upon finding Sirius would have been to kill him, in order to force anyone he\'d told about the location of the Potter\'s residence - if there was anyone other than Dumbledore, as you seem to be assuming - to become a Secret Keeper, thus making it easier for Voldemort to find the place. I pointed out that that probably wouldn\'t be the case, and explained how Sirius\'s plan therefore wouldn\'t have been of much help in the end, and how it gave Voldemort another way of finding the Potters.
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As for your other arguments, evidence points to Sirius not being very skilled at Occlumency. If he did know how to use it, you'd think he would have offered to teach Harry himself in the fifth book, rather than leaving him at the mercy of Snape. And with regards to the Veritaserum antidote, it's not like Voldemort would allow Sirius to use it if he captured him, or that Sirius would be able to trick Voldemort and not take it, as happened with Harry and Umbridge. And Sirius evidently didn't modify his memories of changing the Secret Keeper, or he would never have known about it in the present day. I'll acknowledge the possibility that Voldemort could fail to gain any useful information from Sirius - i.e. If Sirius manages to off himself before Voldemort can question him - but I'm not going to ignore the possibility that Sirius might not be able to conceal his secrets from Voldemort.
to:
As for your other arguments, evidence points to Sirius not being very skilled at Occlumency. If he did know how to use it, you\'d think he would have offered to teach Harry himself in the fifth book, rather than leaving him at the mercy of Snape. And with regards to the Veritaserum antidote, it\'s not like Voldemort would allow Sirius to use it if he captured him, or that Sirius would be able to trick Voldemort and not take it, as happened with Harry and Umbridge. And Sirius evidently didn\'t modify his memories of changing the Secret Keeper, or he would never have known about it in the present day. I\'ll acknowledge the possibility that Voldemort could fail to gain any useful information from Sirius - i.e. If Sirius manages to off himself before Voldemort can question him - but I\'m not going to ignore the possibility that Sirius might not be able to conceal his secrets from Voldemort.
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I know that making Sirius the Secret Keeper wasn't the smartest move at all, given the Fidelius Charm
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I know that making Sirius the Secret Keeper wasn\'t the smartest move at all, given the Fidelius Charm \"rules\" by the end of the series, but that example\'s already up here.
For the second point, I never said that side-along apparition worked in the Hogsmeade case. My point was, they tried it soon after they realised they were screwed, without it occurring to them that their enemies might have taken measures to prevent them doing so. Yet they didn\'t do so when the Snatchers appeared. Also, from the Snatchers announcing their presence to them storming into the tent, the trio had several seconds in which to think about trying side-along apparition. Truth be told, to me that scene came off as the trio being passed the IdiotBall to move the plot along; if they had disapparated before the Snatchers could grab them, they wouldn\'t have met Ollivander and Griphook in Malfoy Manor, or learned about the Horcrux in the Lestrange bank vault. That\'s why I put the example up in the first place. If they had just tried apparating out, and it failed, the example wouldn\'t have gone up.
And yes, side-along apparition didn\'t work out too well in the Ministry case, but that was more due to the trio\'s lack of planning rather than their escape method, as I explained in one of my examples.
Your previous arguments on the first example read like you were saying that Voldemort's course of action upon finding Sirius would have been to kill him, in order to force anyone he'd told about the location of the Potter's residence - if there was anyone other than Dumbledore, as you seem to be assuming - to become a Secret Keeper, thus making it easier for Voldemort to find the place. I pointed out that that probably wouldn't be the case, and explained how Sirius's plan therefore wouldn't have been of much help in the end, and how it gave Voldemort another way of finding the Potters.
to:
Your previous arguments on the first example read like you were saying that Voldemort\'s course of action upon finding Sirius would have been to kill him, in order to force anyone he\'d told about the location of the Potter\'s residence - if there was anyone other than Dumbledore, as you seem to be assuming - to become a Secret Keeper, thus making it easier for Voldemort to find the place. I pointed out that that probably wouldn\'t be the case, and explained how Sirius\'s plan therefore wouldn\'t have been of much help in the end, and how it gave Voldemort another way of finding the Potters.
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As for your other arguments, evidence points to Sirius not being very skilled at Occlumency. If he did know how to use it, you'd think he would have offered to teach Harry himself in the fifth book, rather than leaving him at the mercy of Snape. And with regards to the Veritaserum antidote, it's not like Voldemort would allow Sirius to use it if he captured him, or that Sirius would be able to trick Voldemort and not take it, as happened with Harry and Umbridge. And Sirius evidently didn't modify his memories of changing the Secret Keeper, or he would never have known about it in the present day. I'll acknowledge the possibility that Voldemort could fail to gain any useful information from Sirius - i.e. If Sirius manages to off himself before Voldemort can question him - but I'm not going to ignore the possibility that Sirius might not be able to conceal his secrets from Voldemort.
to:
As for your other arguments, evidence points to Sirius not being very skilled at Occlumency. If he did know how to use it, you\'d think he would have offered to teach Harry himself in the fifth book, rather than leaving him at the mercy of Snape. And with regards to the Veritaserum antidote, it\'s not like Voldemort would allow Sirius to use it if he captured him, or that Sirius would be able to trick Voldemort and not take it, as happened with Harry and Umbridge. And Sirius evidently didn\'t modify his memories of changing the Secret Keeper, or he would never have known about it in the present day. I\'ll acknowledge the possibility that Voldemort could fail to gain any useful information from Sirius - i.e. If Sirius manages to off himself before Voldemort can question him - but I\'m not going to ignore the possibility that Sirius might not be able to conceal his secrets from Voldemort.
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For the second point, I never said that side-along apparition worked in the Hogsmeade case. My point was, they tried it soon after they realised they were screwed, without it occurring to them that their enemies might have taken measures to prevent them doing so. Yet they didn't do so when the Snatchers appeared. Also, from the Snatchers announcing their presence to them storming into the tent, the trio had several seconds in which to think about trying side-along apparition. Truth be told, to me that scene came off as the trio being passed the IdiotBall to move the plot along; if they had disapparated before the Snatchers could grab them, they wouldn't have met Ollivander and Griphook in Malfoy Manor, or learned about the Horcrux in the Lestrange bank vault. That's why I put the example up in the first place. If they had just tried apparating out, and it failed, the example wouldn't have gone up.
to:
I know that making Sirius the Secret Keeper wasn\'t the smartest move at all, given the Fidelius Charm \"rules\" by the end of the series, but that example\'s already up here.
For the second point, I never said that side-along apparition worked in the Hogsmeade case. My point was, they tried it soon after they realised they were screwed, without it occurring to them that their enemies might have taken measures to prevent them doing so. Yet they didn\'t do so when the Snatchers appeared. Also, from the Snatchers announcing their presence to them storming into the tent, the trio had several seconds in which to think about trying side-along apparition. Truth be told, to me that scene came off as the trio being passed the IdiotBall to move the plot along; if they had disapparated before the Snatchers could grab them, they wouldn\'t have met Ollivander and Griphook in Malfoy Manor, or learned about the Horcrux in the Lestrange bank vault. That\'s why I put the example up in the first place. If they had just tried apparating out, and it failed, the example wouldn\'t have gone up.
Your previous arguments on the first example read like you were saying that Voldemort's course of action upon finding Sirius would have been to kill him, in order to force anyone he'd told about the location of the Potter's residence - if there was anyone other than Dumbledore, as you seem to be assuming - to become a Secret Keeper, thus making it easier for Voldemort to find the place. I pointed out that that probably wouldn't be the case, and explained how Sirius's plan therefore wouldn't have been of much help in the end, and how it gave Voldemort another way of finding the Potters.
to:
Your previous arguments on the first example read like you were saying that Voldemort\'s course of action upon finding Sirius would have been to kill him, in order to force anyone he\'d told about the location of the Potter\'s residence - if there was anyone other than Dumbledore, as you seem to be assuming - to become a Secret Keeper, thus making it easier for Voldemort to find the place. I pointed out that that probably wouldn\'t be the case, and explained how Sirius\'s plan therefore wouldn\'t have been of much help in the end, and how it gave Voldemort another way of finding the Potters.
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As for your other arguments, evidence points to Sirius not being very skilled at Occlumency. If he did know how to use it, you'd think he would have offered to teach Harry himself in the fifth book, rather than leaving him at the mercy of Snape. And with regards to the Veritaserum antidote, it's not like Voldemort would allow Sirius to use it if he captured him, or that Sirius would be able to trick Voldemort and not take it, as happened with Harry and Umbridge. And Sirius evidently didn't modify his memories of changing the Secret Keeper, or he would never have known about it. I'll acknowledge the possibility that Voldemort could fail to gain any useful information from Sirius - i.e. If Sirius manages to off himself before Voldemort can question him - but I'm not going to ignore the possibility that Sirius might not be able to conceal his secrets from Voldemort.
to:
As for your other arguments, evidence points to Sirius not being very skilled at Occlumency. If he did know how to use it, you\'d think he would have offered to teach Harry himself in the fifth book, rather than leaving him at the mercy of Snape. And with regards to the Veritaserum antidote, it\'s not like Voldemort would allow Sirius to use it if he captured him, or that Sirius would be able to trick Voldemort and not take it, as happened with Harry and Umbridge. And Sirius evidently didn\'t modify his memories of changing the Secret Keeper, or he would never have known about it in the present day. I\'ll acknowledge the possibility that Voldemort could fail to gain any useful information from Sirius - i.e. If Sirius manages to off himself before Voldemort can question him - but I\'m not going to ignore the possibility that Sirius might not be able to conceal his secrets from Voldemort.
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For the second point, I never said that side-along apparition worked in the Hogsmeade case. My point was, they tried it soon after they realised they were screwed, without it occuring to them that their enemies might have taken measures to prevent them doing so. Yet they didn't do so when the Snatchers appeared. Also, from the Snatchers announcing their presence to them storming into the tent, the trio had several seconds in which to think about trying side-along apparition. Truth be told, to me that scene came off as the trio being passed the IdiotBall to move the plot along; if they had disapparated before the Snatchers could grab them, they wouldn't have met Ollivander and Griphook in Malfoy Manor, or learned about the Horcrux in the Lestrange bank vault. That's why I put the example up in the first place. If they had just tried apparating out, and it failed, the example wouldn't have gone up.
to:
For the second point, I never said that side-along apparition worked in the Hogsmeade case. My point was, they tried it soon after they realised they were screwed, without it occurring to them that their enemies might have taken measures to prevent them doing so. Yet they didn\'t do so when the Snatchers appeared. Also, from the Snatchers announcing their presence to them storming into the tent, the trio had several seconds in which to think about trying side-along apparition. Truth be told, to me that scene came off as the trio being passed the IdiotBall to move the plot along; if they had disapparated before the Snatchers could grab them, they wouldn\'t have met Ollivander and Griphook in Malfoy Manor, or learned about the Horcrux in the Lestrange bank vault. That\'s why I put the example up in the first place. If they had just tried apparating out, and it failed, the example wouldn\'t have gone up.
