Nippon Ichi (Disgaea, Makai Kingdom, etc.)

Having those restrictions on while trying to beat Disgaea 4 would be hard. The last chapter would be the most painful.

I know. I beat the game with those restrictions. In fact, I did that for every Disgaea game after my initial run of Disgaea DS.

edited 23rd May '12 9:53:22 AM by burnpsy

...One problem with the Prinny Zenon thing. Demons don't naturally become Prinnies. They can reincarnate into Prinnies and then reincarnate into a human(oid) or monster, this was the only way to make a humanoid into a monster and vice versa in the first two games, but that seems to be something of a choice, and not the natural turn of things (if it exists in universe at all). Well, I think I recall one of the non-Disgaea NIS games having "demon Prinnies" but I am not sure of it.

Also, how would a Nuzlocke run of Disgaea work anyway? You can only use units you capture, and you have to capture the first unit you see on a map the first time you visit the map? This is mostly problematic in D4, as you don't get access to the Discipline Room into a ways in, and while it is doable in the other games, it pretty much limits you to monster units. (and IMO, monster units, while still useable, didn't become "good" until D4) Also, final death, delete them as soon as they die. Not sure how it would work for story characters though. (you just don't revive them if they die? Maybe in D3 and 4, move them into the "backup" place, detention in D3, Support Group in D4?)

edited 23rd May '12 10:07:42 AM by Otherarrow

You can't put unique characters in the support group.

Naturally, this gets annoying when you get enough DLC characters.

edited 23rd May '12 10:35:01 AM by burnpsy

I think that Makai Kingdom had demon prinnies, and one of the endings of Disgaea had Laharl reincarnate as a prinny, though he's half human, so I dunno.

You know what I want to see? A Sprout prinny that makes an incredible Dark Eboreus effect when he explodes.

Yeah, I assumed that Prinny Laharl was because half human. No clue how demon Prinnies make sense, but it's canon I guess.

My guess, not having played Makai Kingdom, would be that the demon prinnies aren't a natural part of the reincarnation process, but created for some other reason. Of course, what's "natural" gets a little confusing when we're dealing with sapient beings who manage aspects of the cosmology...

I don't think Makai Kingdom explains it. I think the bios for Prinnies in that game is pretty much "the souls of demon sinners, but as penguins" instead of "the souls of human sinners, but as penguins". I admit, since demons are apparently supposed to be sinners (even if minor ones. NIS-verse demons usually frown on the truly evil ones.), the idea of "demon Prinnies" seems odd.

I agree. The minor sinning seems to be what demons are supposed to do, after all. This is all very confusing. It seems like the nature and expectations of demons changes with every game (not that that's a bad thing, I suppose.)

We need to get Yamaxanadu in there to clean things up! (Okay, sorry, maybe we don't.)

edited 23rd May '12 5:35:00 PM by Durazno

Well, why would demon reincarnation differ from human reincarnation? They seem to be bound by these same rules as everyone else.

Because what counts as sins for a human counts as doing their job for demons. They are meant to do bad things and terrorize people such such (though there is a limit to what is acceptable).

And the whole system is already pretty human-centric. Humans become Prinnies and work off their sins. Humans can gain the power to become demons or angels. Humans more or less fuel both of those races. And well, demon reincarnation seems to skip the Prinny stage. For example, when Zenon reincarnated into Rozalin, she went straight to Rozy, despite having (presumably) tons of sins on her soul. She had no time as a Prinny. Or for a less spoilery example (by the standards of the thread apparently) Vyers is Krichevskoy's reincarnation, and again, no Prinny time. (then again, one might read the ending as Vyers being more of a ghost, but I think one of the official World of Disgaea things says reincarnation)

EDIT:Well, one could argue that Krichevskoy wasn't "sinful" enough to need Prinny time, being apparently pure of heart and all. However, he was also apparently a good and popular Overlord, so...yeah.

edited 23rd May '12 8:20:23 PM by Otherarrow

Well, I'm just thinking back to Prinny!Laharl. Meh. Maybe its actually just right there in front of us. In Disgaea 2, you can reincarnate as a Prinny to cleanse a creature of their sins felonies. Maybe that's exactly how it works. Demons can reincarnate as prinnies if they want to cleanse themselves.

Also, Vyers' description has slipped between being a reincarnation, and just being King Krichevskoy outright. Usually as a reincarnation, though. Never as a ghost.

EDIT: I would also argue that the games make a point of proving that, while somewhat twisted, demons aren't inherently evil.

edited 23rd May '12 8:28:06 PM by Zeromaeus

I think that could make sense. So it's more of an optional thing and not part of the natural demon lifespan?

As for Vyers, we do know that if he is a reincarnation, he is an exception to the rules, as apparently, you lose all your memories on reincarnation. (I think this is implied with Rozy, but I think it's more of a plot point in one of D4's DLC chapters)

As for the ghost idea, well, the ending just has him vanish alongside the spirit of his wife, and there is the fact that he is able to enter Celestia at will (which should be impossible if he was a normal demon) Then again, Lamington could be letting him in and out.

EDIT:Demons aren't inherently evil, but it's their job to play that role in relation to humanity. To terrorize them and do bad things to them. However, as I mentioned, demons do seem to draw the line at actual, well, evil. (For example, in Makai Kingdom, the other Overlords treat self admitted rapist Seedle like scum and throughout the series, the more evil and heartless villains are treated negatively, even by other demons.)

I hope I am making sense.

edited 23rd May '12 8:34:17 PM by Otherarrow

That ending also said Kurtis passed on. It didn't stop Kurtis from appearing in every game after that. I think some of Disgaea's best ending was retconned out. Either that, or its not the canon ending. Personally, I think the Prinny!Laharl ending is canon. If just because Laharl has prinny wing looking markings on his back in Disgaea 2.

I think Prinny, Can I Really Be The Hero had something Prinny!Laharl related too, but I never beat that bullshit final boss, so whatever.

Actually, it's never explicitly stated that Kurtis passed on. We see a picture of him next to the red moon, but it's possible he was just being dramatic (he is a Defender of Earth after all) and hasn't worked off his sins yet. But I could just be nuts.

Also, I think the Prinny games follow the Normal/Prinny Laharl ending. Either way, I think the way reincarnation works, if he was a Prinny and did reincarnate, he'd have no memories of being Laharl.

edited 23rd May '12 8:39:01 PM by Otherarrow

Kurtis remembers everything about being a Defender of Earth. There seems to be a few loopholes around the whole "lose all your memories things" considering how many characters don't lose their memories.

It seems that when a Prinny comes back that doesn't look like a stock prinny (Big Sis, Laharl, Kurtis, etc.) they keep their memories.

The loss of memory doesn't come until after the Prinny stage. Big Sis Prinny retains her memories. Fuka retains her memories (well, she is a Prinny only in title, but she follows the same rules re:reincarnation)

I read that there is some drama in the Fuka and Desco DLC mode about how while she has her memories now, when she reincarnates, she will forget Desco and the rest of her past life.

Sorry if I was not clear before. In my previous post, I meant that Laharl wouldn't remember he was Laharl after he reincarnated, not as a Prinny (Prinny Laharl knows full well who he is)

edited 23rd May '12 8:52:47 PM by Otherarrow

Have we seen any named post-Prinny characters?

Well, no, but how would we be able to notice them? They'd look similar to their pre-Prinny forms?

Not counting Vyer's odd case, we do see a post-reincarnation in the form of Rozy, who has no memories of being Zenon. However, Zenon is a separate personality of her so...eh. I blame that on whatever Zenon was becoming when she decided to reincarnate.

I just figure that there are loopholes to the system that are based on the simple need to preserve characters and serve the plot.

Oh yeah, Baal was a Prinny once too.

edited 23rd May '12 8:59:55 PM by Zeromaeus

Baal doesn't count. He technically wasn't a Prinny so much as he was using a spare Prinny body as a temporary body while his ogre body regenerated.

Baal kinda is a body hopping Cosmic Horror thingy. He...tends to not follow the rules.

So, after hours of looking, I finally find Mao in the Item World. Turns out, he gives ONE creature the ability to use Magichange 2...

-sigh-

ANYWAY, Mid-Boss can now convey his powers to his allies. It. Is. Glorious.

That sounds...kinda lame to be honest. Just the one?

Yeah. Just one. He asks if I want to "fix up" one of my people. I pick one from my list of subordinates and that's that.

Talk to him again and he'll say he'll do it again next time.

Still, making it so that all of my characters can use Adonic Buster is pretty cool. I'll go Mao hunting again after I recruit Zetta. Zetta Beams for everyone!

That's one thing that's always kind of irked me about Disgaea's design. "Oh, you've spent forty minutes hacking your way through map after convoluted map! Great job! You've earned one bonus for one of your dozens of characters!" I mean, I get that this is a game you're supposed to sink hundreds of hours into, but it would be nice if these things were just a teensy bit more streamlined.