System Shock

I also find the Navy option to be a solid choice for single player in System Shock 2. Nets you easy access to the hacking you need to get more goodies and it's not hard to drop the points into combat skills to survive, especially since Standard weapons alone should be enough to see you through the game.

Just a heads up: Anyone who is still looking for System Shock 2, there are three copies on eBay going for decent prices. This one might get bid up but I wouldn't expect it to go higher than $25. This one includes the box and manual. This one is a Buy It Now with an honestly decent price for this game.

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So I just got past the cutscene where you fly around a red area while some voice (I assume its the voice of The Many) talks about how you "puzzle us" and they wonder "why you work for our mother" while asking you to join them. I saw no way to accept their offer.

To be honest, I accidentally read one plot spoiler before playing the game, that spoiler being that the scientist giving you advice is actually SHODAN but, I think I would've figured it out. If there's one thing I'm noticing so far its that the game seems to have kind of a predictable plot, unless there's some amazing astounding twist that happens later. I've read absolutely no spoilers about The Many, but I've already guessed that they're the end result of the experiments in Beta Grove in the first game.

So far I'm really enjoying the game, but are a few things I miss from the original though (but I'm only two hours in, so maybe they reappear in some form?) Namely, I miss:

A) the lean function. Yes, I know its still there, but SS 2's lean is just about useless, while SS 1's was essential for survival.

B) The personal force field. I know that there's armor in this game, but it isn't as good.

c) SS 1's inventory setup. While there were limits on how much you could have, it feels like SS 1 was less limiting than SS 2.

d) The jump jets, that allowed you to fly (but drained battery power very fast)

e) The reflex stimpatch. I know SS 2 has the Speed hypo, but it doesn't work the same way (Reflex caused everything to go into slow motion while you continued moving at normal speed. Speed hypo just makes you run faster)

Areas that I think are improvements, overall:

a) User-definable controls, of course. I especially like that you can set it up so that there's a hotkey for med hypos.

b) The more streamlined inventory system. I prefer "press tab for everything" over the series of mouse clicks the first game required. I do have one complaint though: Inventory isn't nearly big enough.

c) picking up things by right-clicking is a lot better than drag-n-drop.

So far I wouldn't say its better or worse than System Shock 1, but I haven't beaten it yet (and I intend to do so). Time will tell.

EDIT - Okay wait, "SS 1" gets a redlink but "SS 2" potholes to System Shock? I know the second was more popular but geez.

edited 12th Oct '10 9:00:15 AM by Edmond_Dantes

The Kagami topic has now reached 201 posts! (Nov 5)

The Many's portion of the plot is indeed fairly predictable, but it's what happens afterwards that makes things really interesting. I'm doing my best to avoid specific spoilers here, of course, but SHODAN's got plans...

Also, I don't see how a "choice" to join the Many would work out story or gameplay-wise; it'd just be a Nonstandard Game Over as you get assimilated. Anyway, it's entirely possible () that SHODAN has a tighter control over you than is explicitly stated in the game and you couldn't choose to join the Many even if you wanted to - although that doesn't entirely explain the ending.

"It's Occam's Shuriken! If the answer is elusive, never rule out ninjas!"

OSA isn't designed to be the sole area of your skill distrubtion, its strictly support.

You can, however, get extremely far in the game using nothing but the wrench and some OSA powers. Really all you need is the invisible ability and you're set for the entire game. You can get it as early as Hydrophonics, then the game is a cinch.

The cyberspace section in SS 1 is timed at least in the last section because You lose once Shodan's face rewrites your entire screen. The problem was that without System Shock portable, the speed of the rewrite was based off the speed of the computer, meaning that in a second or less the screen could be filled.. Its also good to be quick because enemies can still damage you, and every time you fail the time requirement, you get less time for the next boot.

System Shock 1 also requires the lightsaber sword, I forgot what its called, but its a lot weaker in SS 2. Due to a glitch, SS 2 has the crystal doing ridiculous amounts of damage without the fanmade patches, which I recommend a lot.

Choice to the many would be impossible due to you working with Shodan and being cybernetic, the Many is pretty much against cybernetics, the Midwifes being an exception because of how they came about. There is no reasonable way to show that path minus an early game-over, but SS 1 had the infamous "Accidentally destroy earth by firing the laser too early" ending.

edited 12th Oct '10 9:59:28 AM by saladofstones

Well he's talking about WWII when the Chinese bomb pearl harbor and they commuted suicide by running their planes into the ship.

Re: EA and Richard Garriott: He didn't like the company even before Origin got et. Ultima VII has a huge, thinly disguised slight against EA by having the three icons that are crucial to opening a portal for the Big Bad be a cube, a sphere and a pyramid.

Huh.

Re: SS 2: Great game, a bit old but still good. Navy is the best all-around path to pick. Psi skills are tough to do straight, from what I'm told, as they're not as good as you'd hope they would be. There are guides online for playing as a pure psi character, and it is possible, just not at all easy. On higher difficulties it'd be suicidal.

Sakamoto demands an explanation for this shit.

I'm kinda seeing what Korg was complaining about, and incidentally its reminding me of why I generally prefer Japanese RP Gs.

I had to restart the game because I made upgrade choices with my character that seemed good at first, but turned out to be bad. Now on a new character, I've got a save directly before the first OS upgrade, and I'm not sure which one is the best.

I think I might buy the Strategy Guide (I know there's FA Qs, but I like physical media to read on the jon)

The Kagami topic has now reached 201 posts! (Nov 5)

Okay, so I've put something like ten hours into System Shock 2, most of those just repeating the first area, and I feel like I must say it, and I don't care if I'm committing Fandom Blasphemy or not:

System Shock 2 sucks!

I could go on about what grinds my ass, but I'll just say it: What retard decided it needed to be part-RPG? System Shock 1 was RPG-like in that you would find new powers and equipment (actually that makes it more like Metroid than anything), and that was fine! Why did they need to ditch that, as well as the cooler ideas, in favor of this shit shit SHIT cyber-modules system?

Okay, actually, that's not even what grinds me. Here's what grinds me:

Realizing that I had made some piss-poor decisions with my first character (due entirely to my notable lack of being a fucking psychic and not knowing which skills and abilities are actually going to be useful five minutes from now, which is precisely why I hate these kinds of systems), I started a couple of new games. With one of them, I decided to experiment: I got his repair up to three so that I could fix one of the broken shotguns that some of the Hybrids carry (why are they all jammed even though the hybies themselves were using them just fine moments ago?) I was like "cool! I got a shotgun early!" then I tried to equip it...

"requires a standard weapon skill of 3"

Crap. Wait, so my dude who is part of a military organization does not know how to use a shotgun? UGH!

And that's how this game is: Its one of those that makes you feel like no matter what decision you make, its WRONG. Getting hit too much so you up your endurance—uh-oh, here's a box you can't hack now! Okay, so I'll go back and up hacking instead—here's a room with two gun turrets and there's no convenient security computer nearby! Sucks to be you!

I can only think of one way I might enjoy this game. It involves using cheat codes (which is already something I don't like doing, but anyway) in order to even out the flaws and make the game more like the first one. I'm fine, however, with needing to level up cool or non-necessary skills like psi powers.

All in all though, this isn't just Hype Backlash... its outright disappointment.

The Kagami topic has now reached 201 posts! (Nov 5)

It is a bit dated.

Bioshock is more streamlined (for better or for worse) as far as I know of.

Going by Yahtzee's review, it sounds like Bioshock just went back to the way the original System Shock worked (well okay, not so much the "no inventory screen" thing—SS 1 had one—but the being able to use any gun or device right off the bat thing).

The more I listen to it the more that particular review sounds like backhanded praise. It only sucks that its not cyberpunk and there's no SHODAN.

edited 24th Oct '10 6:03:22 PM by Edmond_Dantes

The Kagami topic has now reached 201 posts! (Nov 5)

I may have asked something like this before in another thread, but is it okay to play System Shock 2 without playing the original System Shock first? I tried the original game very briefly and found it basically unplayable, but I've heard some people say the second one is decent and doesn't suffer from the same problems. However, I'll skip it if it requires understanding the setting/storyline of the original game.

Join my forum game!

As I recall, I played the second game first; playing the first game improves the second, especially in potentially adding impact to a certain element of the game, but I don't think that you'll be likely to be confused if you don't.

However, there may be a third way, if you're so inclined: have you looked for a decent Let's Play of the first game? That way you'll have exposure to it without having to deal with the rather primitive controls.

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Well, the version I have does have mouse support, which isn't so bad as trying to play with the keyboard only, although switching back and forth is still annoying in its own way. However, I just found that the game was nightmarishly complicated and counterintuitive, like the designers tried to cram in every computer game element ever invented up to that time and did all of them badly. The game seems to expect me to navigate a dozen different types of menus simultaneously, choose a tiny selection of items to hold on to with only the barest indication of what any of them are for (much less which ones are critical for completing the game), and remember exactly which of the hundreds of computer panels on the walls are useful and what they do, all in a cramped, copy+pasted environment with such poor visual distinction that even figuring out where I am and which way I'm facing is a problem. Oh, and I have to do all this quickly and efficiently or else I'll get 'fatigued', which may or may not have some important, obscure and highly complicated negative effect, but certainly sounds like it does. It just seems like way too much of a chore to try to play all the way through.

I'm not sure whether the second game fixes these problems, but it does seem as if developers learned a lot of lessons in game design during the 1990s. For instance, Deus Ex was able to do just about everything System Shock tried to do, while remaining totally playable. So that's a good sign.

I don't really have a habit of watching LPs, but for a game as annoying to actually play as System Shock, I guess it's a reasonable idea. I wouldn't know where to find a 'good' one, though. It'd probably be best if there were one with little to no player commentary, given that the game itself has a fair amount of recorded dialogue. Maybe I'll have a look around.

edited 12th Sep '14 12:26:50 AM by Meklar

Join my forum game!

Fair enough; since I tend to prefer Let's Plays that have commentary, I don't have any suggestions there, I'm afraid.

System Shock 2 should, I think, be rather more intuitive and streamlined; there's still a somewhat complex interface (you do switch between two interaction modes, I seem to recall), but I feel that it all works rather well.

(I don't recall System Shock 1 being quite as obtuse as you describe (and I did play it well after System Shock 2, I believe), but that could just be a failing in my memory. The main obstacle that I recall was the controls.)

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After years and years of waiting, the original System Shock has finally found its way to GOG for purchase. This one comes with both the Enhanced edition and the Classic edition. It's 20% off (40% off if you also own System Shock 2), and the deal expires on Sept 29.

I gotta say, this is a long time coming. Maybe I'll buy it soon.

I've been playing the first since it finally released on Go G the other day, and finished the first level just now. It's been fun, even if I still have trouble with basic things like turning. Oh, and it hasn't railroaded me into a padded as hell fetch quest so far, so that's one advantage the first has over the second.

It begins.

System Shock Remake in Production, System Shock 3 Discussions Happening

edited 12th Nov '15 5:36:01 AM by AnotherGuy

Huh.

By the way, by "remake" they mean a ground-up remaster instead of the current "Enhanced Edition".

I don't know if I want a modern System Shock. There's way too much baggage with modern gaming that threatens getting a worthy followup.

I mean, I want it. Real real, bad bad. But I don't want it more as streamlined/more streamlined as Bioshock, season passes, DLC, pre-release bonuses...

edited 12th Nov '15 7:43:15 AM by Rotpar

"But don't give up hope. Everyone is cured sooner or later. In the end we shall shoot you." - O'Brien, 1984

First look at System Shock reimagined.

So much bloom.

edited 26th Nov '15 6:04:53 AM by unnoun

This doesn't look half-bad, actually.

That was a bit better than I expected, seems like a solid remaster so far. I'm down with it if it goes well, Homeworld Remastered was great!

edited 15th Mar '16 4:40:10 AM by YoKab

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My only concern with new games building on old ones is they streamline in the wrong way - rather than making complex mechanisms easy to use or access, they sometimes just strip them out, or make them so obtuse in menu systems.

Also, telegraphing how GRITTY it is or that you should be SCARED NOW. Alien Isolation did a fairly decent job - a System Shock with that vibe would be amazing. Never finished the game. Got too scared by it. Don't do well with hidey sneaky games. Stealth I can handle, but Amnesia helplessness not my thang.

Well, I was already starting to look towards getting a new PC, so I guess I can give myself another reason why.

Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)