World Of Warcraft

I'd imagine that the few Nerubians who are still alive after the war in Northrend have taken their city back and more or less told everyone else to screw right off.

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It also helps to remember that the Old Gods and their minions aren't all one happy family - and considering all the shit the Nerubians went through, I can fully understand why they didn't rejoin the Old Gods' forces during Cataclysm - especially not after the Faceless Ones outright attacked them.

Especially if they didn't know what attacked then at the time. I'm not sure if that was established.

Re: Kil'Jaden, I thought his death was intended as permanent. Even if he didn't die in the Twisting Nether, per se, he did die in his homeworld, which I always took to be effectively the same thing, like how Ragnaros and Al Akir could only be permanently killed in their home realms.

Argus is in the Twisting Nether so yes, Kil'jaeden did die permanently. Archimonde is basically Schrodinger's Eredar.

edited 17th Dec '17 8:31:12 AM by LordVatek

How so?

Has it ever occurred to anyone that groups like Twilight's Hammer are more diverse than the "good guy" factions?

It first struck me in that village by Tol Barad. Tauren, Gomes, humans, trolls, orcs, etc all working toward a common goal.

edited 17th Dec '17 12:19:43 PM by sgamer82

@Lord Vatek, sgamer82

It did not matter where Kil'Jaeden died. It would not have been permanent. Antorus was regenerating all the Demons no matter where they died by using Argus's World Soul. By destroying Argus's World Soul that was prevented however.

edited 17th Dec '17 1:17:45 PM by Envyus

I'm pretty sure that applies to everywhere except the Nether. I think the explanation was that Antorus works by retrieving the souls that returned to the Nether after death but if they die in the physical space and not on any planet, there is no soul to retrieve.

It's unclear in game canon. Illidan says in the trailer for patch 7.3 that any demon that dies on Argus dies forever, but that doesn't seem to be borne out by the quest content. Regardless, with Antorus destroyed and Argus no longer under the Legion's control, the demons cannot use it as a focal point to regenerate.

edited 17th Dec '17 1:41:48 PM by Fighteer

The Demons and Army of the Light pointed out that was wrong to Illidan.

Because of Antorus the Demons were truly Immortal and Infinite and would just come back no matter what. Every Demon you kill in Argus says they will come out of Antorus and get revenge. With Commanders saying stuff like they will be tortured in Antorus for their failures when you kill them.

But it does not matter too much because we destroyed Argus meaning Antorus would no longer revive those Demons.

edited 17th Dec '17 2:25:44 PM by Envyus

I'm now imagining demons standing in line like at an amusement park only to be told after waiting a literal eternity that the rides broken.

edited 17th Dec '17 2:38:07 PM by sgamer82

Is anyone else a bit puzzled at the sheer lack of information about BFA that's come out so far? Usually by this point we'd know a lot more about it

I mean, what else is there to learn?

Usually the floodgates don't open up until beta starts up, and I don't expect that to happen until January at the earliest.

Winter Veil is up, but I think I'm going to ignore it this year. According to the comments on Wo Whead, it doesn't look very appealing. The worst seems to be the pet that appears once every 30 minutes in the middle of a major city, but overall is just grinding dailies for extremely rare rewards and camping respawn points. I think I'll spend my time better levelling alts.

In the audio-book which was released shortly before the Argus campaign, it's stated that demons do die definitely if they're killed in the TN. For reference, Lothraxion mentions the Locus Walker killed a group of demons, but pulled Lothraxion out of the TN before killing him so that he was able to come back. And this was said by Lothraxion: as a former member of the Burning Legion, he knows what he's talking about, and as a current member of the Army of the Light, he has no reason to be lying.

So, either Argus the titan was only able to save demons killed in Argus the planet, or it was a plan put in motion fairly recently (after Lothraxion joined the Army of the Light).

It's believed that, at the Blizzcon, development was relatively quite behind except for the new zones' concept and modelling. That's why we didn't get much details apart from how the new zones would be: Blizzard didn't want to give too many details about things that were open to change.

edited 18th Dec '17 7:11:35 AM by morenohijazo

And even still, the information's gonna be a slow drip, between the NDA and blizzard encrypting stuff better (they still figured it out, but look at how many days it took for them to datamine 7.3.5 compared to pulling stuff instantly in just 7.3 alone) I expect the flow will be really well controlled, the only things to slip will be "leaks" Blizzard let slip to build up hype and whistle innocently that's not what they're doing

While they have gotten better at encrypting stuff, Blizzard hasn't had an NDA-covered alpha/beta phase since Cataclysm. Not counting the in-house alphas of course.

edited 18th Dec '17 12:15:06 PM by Falrinn

Just in case anyone still doubted that the Old Gods were responsible for BfA, this was found on the PTR.

edited 18th Dec '17 6:48:25 PM by LordVatek

Who wrote that, and who's the "shepherd" they were referring to?

It's a rare, twilight-affiliated ogre that spawns in Silithus in 7.3.5, you loot his journal after you kill him

At this point, my thoughts:

Either Alleria, Jaina or Sylvanas. Personal bets are on Sylvanas as it mentions crows, and the Forsaken emblem has a crow/raven on it, and it also ties in with the "lord of ravens" quote, Ravenholdt and Odyn probably won't be relevant in BFA, so the "lord" might be Nathanos.

Something I also noticed was "The first of his lies has been offered to you", which probably calls back to the "three lies" whisper. That might be Greymane, at this point we know the Alliance are the instigators of at least the conflict in Silithus, it's possible that Genn lies about the situation to force Anduin into action.

Come to think of it, I think everything in that journal is giving further pointers to Xal'atath's whispers, it mentions "The dagger spoke true, it's been too long since I was drowned" (In a circle of stars?)

Blizzard is giving us half-answers towards her mysteries, wonder if we'll find out more later

edited 18th Dec '17 10:24:59 PM by NaraNumas

For those who don't watch sites, it's confirmed:

The allied races will require the loremaster achievment for their specific zone and exalted with their associated faction, with void elves going to Argussian Reach (both Void Elves and Lightforged only require the loremaster for Argus, no new loremaster to separate them, just reps)

It needs further clarification, but the achievments to unlock the quest are currently flagged as account-wide, so while you may only to be able to recruit them on the respective faction, you may just need exalted on one character on the entirety of your account to be eligible for the quest.

edited 19th Dec '17 4:31:19 PM by NaraNumas

I can't help feeling that puts the Alliance at a disadvantage, since their allied factions were introduced so much later. Especially since, until recently, getting exalted with the Nightfallen was explicitly tied to their quest progression.

edited 19th Dec '17 4:57:45 PM by sgamer82

Yeah no way that it will go live, if the Alliance even has a slight disadvantage in anything shit will fly until blizz caves in. It will be just like how D Ks requiring a pre-quest didn't became a thing.

How true is this? This seems to confirm my views that the game runs on 'Alliance Bias' or rather, the players of the game make it look like that: Put disadvantage on the Alliance, players whine. Put advantage to Horde (especially in Cataclysm), players whine.

And people keep denying 'Alliance Bias' despite what was stated. "if the Alliance even has a slight disadvantage in anything shit will fly until blizz caves in"...

I don't think the exalted requirement puts the Alliance at any disadvantage, not one that matters anyways. Or at least if there have been enough Argussian Reach/Army of the Light emissaries active for a player to go all the way up to exalted without additional effort.

Having said that, I doubt the prerequisites are going to stick for the long term. They make enough sense now, but eventually they are going to require players to play through increasingly outdated content for an extended period of time.