Pokémon General Thread

You can catch Geodude and Ghastly before even the first Gym in Route 46 and Sprout Tower. If trade evolutions aren't an issue then Golem and Gengar are solid picks for permanent team members, plus Geodude has advantage over both Falkner and Bugsy, who Chikorita is going to struggle against.

Mareep is also available early, and Ampharos is pretty much the best choice for an Electric-type unless you want to wait until Route 38 for a Magnemite. Which is an option given Magneton has mostly better stats than Ampharos plus that nice Steel-typing, though it learns strong moves slower than Ampharos does. Can't evolve it into Magnezone without trading it to DPP and then back.

Since you mentioned Quagsire, you can also catch Wooper on the same route. Quagsire isn't that great since its stats are bleh both offensively and defensively, but at least it has a great type and it can learn Earthquake naturally at level 36 which is something I guess.

Fearow is pretty good for a flyer and you can catch a Spearow on Route 33 to use against Bugsy, or wait a bit longer until Route 35 and get the gift one which has boosted EXP due to being counted as a traded Pokemon.

Between the 2nd and 3rd Gyms, there's Abra on Route 34, and again if trade evos aren't an issue then Alakazam is always a good team member in any game. Even Kadraba is pretty good if you can't evolve it. You can use Headbutt to catch a Heracross in Azalea and while it comes in underleveled so you'll need to grind it up, it's pretty much the best Fighting-type available and very strong. If you don't want to find and train one but want a Fighting-type for Whitney then there's always the trade Machop in Goldenrod, and Machamp is also a solid Pokemon.

If trading isn't an issue then Scyther is a good pick because you can catch one in the Bug-Catching Contest and then get a Metal Coat from the Pokeathelon to evolve it almost immediately into Scizor. Only issue is you'll need to spent a half-hour grinding Pokeathelon, and you may need to screw with your DS clock since the Bug-Catching Content is only on half the weekdays and the Metal Coat is only available in the Pokeathelon shop on Fridays.

If you want a Fire-type then your best bet would be Growlithe or Vulpix (available depending on version) which you can catch on Route 36. Only issue is you need to grind Pokeathelon points to evolve them too as that's the easiest way to get a Fire Stone (only available on Tuesdays), plus because they're stone evolutions that stop having level up moves and the TM for Flamethrower requires grinding coins at the Game Corner, you'll want to wait until they learn Flamethrower by level up before evolving them (Vulpix has it better here since it learns it at level 24 vs level 34).

And once you pass the 4th Gym you're going to want to a good Water-type that's likely also your Surf user, and I'd say the best choices are Gyarados, Starmie, and Lapras. Once you get the Good Rod in Olivine you can catch a Magikarp at level 20 with it and immediately evolve it after one level up, but arguably rushing to the Red Gyarados and using that one is better since it comes in at level 30. Staryu can also be fished up at level 20 in Olivine be evolve quickly with a Water Stone if you're willing to get the Pokeathelon points (only available on Wednesdays), and it's strong, fast, with amazing coverage. Lapras can be found in the bottom of Union Cave on Fridays, and while it's slow Water/Ice is a great offensive type that will come in handy for beating Clair and Lance, which is notable since Clair's Kingdra is probably one of the most threatening Pokemon you'll fight in the main story.

I think that's most of the best Pokemon in HGSS. Most everything else you can catch after Morty are better served with a Pokemon of the same type you can catch earlier, and anything after you have 7 badges is too late to really consider unless it's a legendary.

I just defeated Lady Lilligant in PLA.

Edited by wooden-ladybug93 on Apr 16th 2024 at 12:07:55 PM

If you play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

Finally, after much delay, I finally transported my original Kanto team to Kalos with Pokebank.

Says 54 days left.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

that's just a hold over.

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. Let's give it EVERYTHING we've got! It's...PUNISHMENT TIME

Quagsire is very good competitively, ironically.

And Quagsire gets points for being one of your best picks for water type in Colosseum if you didn't choose Croconaw! (At least until you get Suicune, which is pretty late in the game)

I remember that Suicune is more mid-game then anything else and you can purify it with a time flute to make it on your team faster.

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. Let's give it EVERYTHING we've got! It's...PUNISHMENT TIME

Got all nostalgic over the Game Cube games.

Man, Miror B has some of the best fight music.

I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.

A bit of a warning about HGSS: the third gym leader, Whitney, is probably going to be the biggest hurdle you face in the game due to her Miltank. It has a higher BST than anything you will likely have at this point, it will be able to hit anything at neutral damage at least due to Scrappy, it knows Attract so all male Pokemon might as well not be in this fight, and it can heal itself with Milk Drink.

Edited by Weirdguy149 on Apr 17th 2024 at 9:07:21 AM

It's been 3000 years…

Miltank is trivialized by Geodude tho, which has comparable attack and defense, and resists EVERYTHING Miltank can toss. Gastly used to do the same, but Scrappy Stomp hurts; still, if you get a Curse on, Miltank goes down.

For what it's worth, I'm well-acquainted with HGSS as a whole, I just wanted some advice when it comes to Pokémon I haven't used before.

As I mentioned previously, I'm definitely considering using Gengar, though I'm not sure if I want to use both it and Golem, as I dunno if I want to have so many trade evolutions—for this reason, I'm also not sure if I want to have both it and Steelix.

Ampharos is definitely an old reliable of mine, so I'm perfectly willing to use it. Magnemite I'd probably prefer to use if I play Crystal again.

I'm definitely considering Quagsire for some point in the future, but right now I think I'd prefer one of the Ground types I mentioned before.

I dont' disagree on Fearow, but I've used it a lot in past Johto playthroughs, and I'd prefer something more exciting. Another flyer that comes to mind is Crobat, which I've also used before but only once. That said, if I do end up choosing Gengar, I don't want to double up on Poison types. Are there any other Johto flyers you might recommend?

I've used Heracross before and I really like it, so I'll definitely be looking at it here. I also think Scizor is pretty cool, but I did use it on my last playthrough and it was indeed a bit of a hassle to get (and I couldn't even get one with Technician), so I think I'll look elsewhere for now.

Growlithe would be the one in my version, but I want to use it in a Black 2 playthrough I plan on doing one of these days, so I'd rather not use it here. Houndoom is actually my favorite Gen II Fire type, but to use it in the base game I'd have to trade one over from Platinum (which might also require that I breed one so it's at a more appropriate level). I had originally planned on bringing over a Charmander that I got in a previous Heartgold post-game, but I think I lost it somewhere when I created a new game in either Heartgold or Platinum (whichever I was saving it in).

...I could try catching Entei—Gastly has some very useful moves I could put towards that. It would of course be very time-consuming...

Hm...I've used all of these before, and can attest to their usefulness, but I dunno...I do think the Red Gyarados would be very cool to use, but I'll confess that I prefer raising Pokemon from their base forms, not to mention it would require going out of my preferred order if I wanted it to properly contribute. Lapras is probably the one I like the most, but to be honest, I kind of wanted to try out a Johto water type—I don't know how many good ones there are, though. Any reccomendations?

An issue I think I'm having is that pure Grass isn't really something that gels well with a lot of my preferences, at least in Johto. But the entire point is to build a team around Meganium. So I guess the real question here is what Pokemon could be said to synergize well with it.

I do appreciate everyone's help!

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 17th 2024 at 12:14:06 PM

Oh God! Natural light!

As far as Golem vs. Steelix goes, Golem is definitely the better choice - Steelix is slow, has a dubious level up movepool, and while replacing its Rock-typing for Steel sounds good that gives it less synergy with Meganium (no longer has STAB against Flying and Bugs, and now shares a Fire weakness). But it depends on what you really want. If you really want to try out different Pokemon that people don't usually use, then go ahead and use Steelix. If you're focused more on choosing something that synergies with Meganium, then go with Golem.

Crobat's another pretty good choice. Now, if the pool to look through is specifically Gen II Pokemon that can learn Fly (and aren't legendary), that gives us Noctowl, Crobat, Togetic, Xatu, Murkrow, Delibird, and Skarmory. Well Togetic is right out, it's too weak without evolving and you can't get a Shiny Stone until Kanto. Delibird is both pathetically weak and shows up really late. Skarmory is pretty cool, but it shows up too late and isn't in the version you're playing anyway. Noctowl is a pretty standard choice, not that great, it's got mediocre stats but it learns Hypnosis and a bunch of a Psychic moves by level up so that's something. Xatu seems like it should be a good choice, it's Psychic/Flying and it's got decent stats, but its Gen IV level up movepool is horrendous. It literally has just Peck and Night Shade as its only attacking moves until the 40s. And you're not patching that up with the TM for Psychic because you don't get that until Kanto.
After looking through things, I think the next best choice after Crobat might actually be Murkrow. I was going to write off at first for the same reason as Togetic, but I doublechecked its stats and 85 Attack and 95 Speed is actually not that bad. Its attacking moves are bit underwhelming, but at least it actually get some unlike Xatu. And it's like the only Dark-type in Johto other than Umbreon. So if want try out less common choices this seems pretty good. Only issue is that it's in the Safari Zone, so a bit late and requires some screwing around. That does put it right next to the Fly HM though.

Well I did say if you want a Fire-type. If you don't start with Cyndaquil then your options for Fire-types in Johto are almost as bad your options for Fire-types in DP if you didn't pick Chimchar. Growlithe and Vulpix weren't even viable picks back in original GS since you couldn't get Fire Stones at all until post-game there. If you do want one and don't want it to be Arcanine, then your next best bet is Magmar, which is available soon afterwords in the Burnt Tower.

As far as Gen II Water-types, maybe Slowking, Lanturn, or Azumarill? Slowking is almost never going first, but 100 Sp. Atk is solid, pretty good bulk, and Water/Psychic is a nice type, although it's too bad it's stuck with the physical Zen Headbutt as its best Psychic move until level 48. Lanturn has really mediocre stats, but Water/Electric is a neat STAB combo and its level up movepool isn't any worse than Magneton's. Azumarill has Huge Power, but it doesn't actually get any physical Water moves to exploit it until you get the HM for Waterfall just before the final Gym.

I was going to suggest considering Mantine too, but after doublechecking it I don't know. It's Sp. Atk is just okay while its physical Atk is really bad, and that's a problem because it learns literally no special Flying moves so it might as well be pure Water offensively.

Hm, noted—Golem it is. I'll save Steelix for a future playthrough (same with Gengar, probably).

Hm...I have been wanting to try out Murkrow. And while Honchkrow isn't in the Johto Dex, I can work around that... I'll take it into consideration. Magmar is similar in that regard, I think.

[[quoteblock]] As far as Gen II Water-types, maybe Slowking, Lanturn, or Azumarill? Slowking is almost never going first, but 100 Sp. Atk is solid, pretty good bulk, and Water/Psychic is a nice type, although it's too bad it's stuck with the physical Zen Headbutt as its best Psychic move until level 48. Lanturn has really mediocre stats, but Water/Electric is a neat STAB combo and its level up movepool isn't any worse than Magneton's. Azumarill has Huge Power, but it doesn't actually get any physical Water moves to exploit it until you get the HM for Waterfall just before the final Gym. I was going to suggest considering Mantine too, but after doublechecking it I don't know. It's Sp. Atk is just okay while its physical Atk is really bad, and that's a problem because it learns literally no special Flying moves so it might as well be pure Water offensively. [[/quoteblockk]]

I have used Slowking before and would happily stand by it. Lanturn has also caught my eye, but I was thinking of actually catching one for a future Moon playthrough. But I won't deny that Lapras naturally learning Ice Beam is a huge point in its favor.

One issue I'm having is that both a Grass type and a Rock type in the same party kind of risk making an Electric type like Ampharos redundant, but as I mentioned previously, Ampharos is a Pokémon that I really like using...though considering that I'll probably use it if I play Silver again, perhaps I could stand to give it a break for now.

Let's go back to synergy—what goes well with a pure Grass type like Meganium, aside from Rock types?

Oh God! Natural light!

As far as synergy goes, Golem's Rock/Ground completely covers for Meganium's weaknesses. Grass is bad against Fire, Ice, Flying, Bug, and Poison. Rock beats Fire, Ice, Flying, and Bug, while Ground beats Fire and Poison. And Golem is weak to Water and Ground, which Meganium could cover for.

Now because of the dual Golem is mutually good against and weak to Ice and Steel, but maybe you want something for those without the risk. It's also weak to Grass and Fighting. So if you add a Fire-type onto the team then that covers Grass, Ice, and Steel.

At that point you just need a Flying-type to beat Fighting, and its own weakness to Electric, Rock, and Ice are already covered by the previous three Pokemon.

That still leave 2 free slots for a Water-type and then just whatever else you want I guess.

Hm, noted. I suppose I’ll capture a Magmar for my Fire type needs to start with, and then once I have the necessary tools, I’ll see if I can get my hands on Entei. I’ll go with Murkrow as well and try to get my hands on a Dusk Stone, whatever methods that might require (I’ll have to trade with my Platinum copy anyway for Golem, so I could always send over a Dusk Stone at the same time).

The Water type is the biggest sticking point, then. Out of curiosity, what would you go with for the sixth slot?

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 17th 2024 at 4:47:50 AM

Oh God! Natural light!

Chiming in to bring up that I used a Female Quagsire and she did the job. Mainly since she could learn Rock Smash which has the chance to lower defense and resisted Rollout.

Best I could think of are Kingdra and Quagsire since they’re good defensively. If you want Kingdra though, you’ll need to use a Good Rod in Whirl Islands which you can find Horsea in and the Thief TM or a Stantler with Frisk since the Dragon Scale in Mt. Mortar requires Surf and Waterfall to get to it and wild Horsea can be found holding it.

Wooper can be found early on and evolves into Quagsire at Level 20 meaning you have a fine Water/Ground type on hand.

Edited by MisterZygarde64 on Apr 17th 2024 at 4:30:58 AM

Check out Rogues Gallery Transplant: The Game

I've considered Kingdra and probably will try to use one at some point in the future, but I agree that it's obtainable rather late.

That said, I was asking more what should be the sixth Pokémon after I added a Water type. For reference, that's Meganium, Golem, Murkrow (Honchkrow if I can get a Dusk Stone), Magmar/Entei, the still indeterminate Water type, and the final slot. Settling on that last one might help me figure out what Water type I want.

Edited by KarkatTheDalek on Apr 17th 2024 at 10:36:37 AM

Oh God! Natural light!

It sounds like you want to avoid using overlapping types, and my last post I discussed how to have STAB options against as many types as possible. Assuming we got a team of a Grass, Rock/Ground, Fire, Dark/Flying, and Water-type, the only types of opposing Pokemon that can't be readily hit super-effectively with STAB are pure Normal, pure Dark, Cradily, and half the Dragons. So that means a Fighting, Ice, or Dragon-type would add the most to the team. There's no Ice or Dragon-types readily available in Johto except Lapras and Cloyster who could fill the Water-type slot, so that leaves adding a Fighting-type I think as the best option - so effectively Heracross or Machamp.

Hm, Lapras and Heracross sounds like a potent combo. Granted, I prefer Pokémon that can evolve, but I just used Machamp in a Leaf Green playthrough, and I think I prefer Lapras's movepool to Shellder's.

One thing that bugs me—the change to the Olivine Harbor in the Johto remakes means that an area to catch Pokémon has been completely removed—you have to go all the way to Route 41 to catch a Shellder or a Chinchou. Kind of bugs me, honestly.

Anyway, thanks for the help!

Oh God! Natural light!

One last thing, I was thinking about if there were any specific species of Pokemon you fight in HGSS where the current set-up still might not be good enough without a 4x super-effective move, and answer I thought of was Gyarados. The only Pokemon that could hit it super-effectively is Golem and I'm not sure if it could OHKO Gyarados. If not then it's absolutely getting OHKO'd in return, so it would help to have an Electric move even just as coverage. Luckily Lapras can learn Thunderbolt and Thunder by TM. I think a Lapras with Surf, Ice Beam, and Thunder[bolt] is nearly the perfect counter to Clair and Lance's teams.

Ah, so it can. Thank you, I was just thinking about that issue. Only potential difficulty is that I need a Waterfall user, but I also wanted to teach Lapras Perish Song...

Oh God! Natural light!

@Karkat The Dalek I can vouch for Kingdra as long you have five pokemon on the team before hand and use another game to level it up as when you catch a Horsea in HGSS it at level 10 to 20 when you get it.

Edited by The-Azure-Star-Of-Orion on Apr 17th 2024 at 8:53:18 AM

After 10 year plus years I have the confidence to be here. Let's give it EVERYTHING we've got! It's...PUNISHMENT TIME

Thinking about it more I can probably just teach make Quagsire the Water HM slave.

That does raise another question though—should I give Lapras Perish Song to allow it to wear down tough opponents, or should I give it a Rain Dance/Thunder combo?

Oh God! Natural light!

I defeated Lord Arcanine without triggering a battle.

If you play with fire, you're gonna get burned.

Alright, one more potential issue—Golem is definitely looking like a pretty attractive option as far as Rock types go…but I also feel the strong allure of Tyranitar’s power. Of course, it would take forever to train, so what do you think? Should I go for it?

Oh God! Natural light!