Series/Supernatural

You're supposed to put the spoiler where "hide this text" is.

What the FUCK?

I can't wait to see where they go with this. And it's not a complete ass pull, it at least makes a little bit of sense.

edited 20th May '14 9:56:21 PM by Kesagake

SPOILER in video This is what I (and I'm sure plenty of other people) though of after the ending to the season finale: This scene from Season 3

Oh wow, that didn't even cross my mind. But now it seems super duper prophetic.

Not prophetic when that is literally what was going to happen to him at the end of the season if Cas hadn't swooped in to save his ass.

He was still a few centuries off from that though.

Hence the tongue. Perhaps I should have put Joking Mode on that. Not that it was a particularly good joke, but whatever.

Centuries shmenturies.

Also, while I'm here, I might as well mention that I'm starting a Supernatural fanfic; I should have the first chapter uploaded by later tonight or early tomorrow.

edited 21st May '14 11:46:05 AM by Kesagake

Centuries in hell or outta hell? Cause time moves differently there.

Both, I would imagine.

Crowley is said to have been from about 200 years ago, but was already a demon known to Abbadon by the 50s. So I'd guess many centuries in Hell time. For comparison, Cas pulled out Dean after 40 Hell years.

I would be more impressed, if they didn't already know how to cure demons.

Well yeah, but if they humanize him, wouldn't his wounds kill him?

We were speculating on twitter.

My vote: They can cure him but the mark will provide some problem with that. So most of the story will be trying to ditch that, so THEN Dean can be cured.

And what does it matter even if his wounds would then kill him? Cas or one of the other angels can heal.

I'm trying to figure out why in the world Lucifer would ever bother creating something he couldn't kill (but could kill him). Our current theory: the boys never returned to the right universe at the end of "The French Mistake" but instead another, similar one where logic is spoken of only in myth.

Do we know The Mark+Blade can't kill Lucy? They act like it can kill anything, but they did that with The Colt too. Maybe it doesn't work on Archangels. And Metatron was fairly confident Dean couldn't kill him as long as he was powered by the tablet.

So, the Mark of Cain seems to induce a literal case of He Who Fights Monsters.

Hey, everyone. I'm a longtime fan of the show who has grown steadily more and more frustrated with how it has been handled in the recent seasons. That really says something about their quality since I legitimately love the sixth and seventh seasons.

I've been articulating my feelings on various other sites and found it a good way to expand on the issues in the writing compared to the strengths of the Kripke-era. I could probably put together a lengthy essay based on all the comments/discussions I've had.

T Vtropes, however, appears to be the most active and intelligent community for the show. I've seen many of you point out the same perceptions I've had myself as well as others that I missed. (I've been half-watching this season, so I was unaware that reapers are now angels)

If anyone is interested in what I consider to be the main issues with the last two seasons I would be happy to share, otherwise I'll just wait until next season to contribute as it happens.

I'll bite, what're your main issues?

Height of Sun, you can also stop by:

http://thewinchesterfamilybusiness.com/

And I'll be interested to see which points we have in common and what you've caught that I missed.

Nate,

Great site which I've visited before, but with 13 (current) writers I'm not sure I can so easily insert myself into that community. That's a lot of reviews for each episode!

Here's my thoughts, compiled and edited together:

My issue with the seasonal conflicts and finales post-Kripe is that they have dealt solely with the emotional impact on Sam and/or Dean while ignoring the global repercussions. Season seven began without any memory of Castiel as god and season eight began without a word given to the potentially thousands of people who became vegetative from eating fast food. (They handwaved the Leviathans as being exterminated without incident)

Season eight ended (not resolved) the Hell Gate arc in favor of the angels, who themselves were not shown having much effect on the world outside of a single evangelical television personality.

If the writers insist on continuing these global conflicts then they need to actually take the time to show how society is affected, which would succeed in adding weight to the personal conflicts. Kripke knew how to parallel the two themes in such a way that each was strengthened.

Considering how little was accomplished this season with Abaddon and how much the Metatron conflict idled until the end I can't help but imagine how much everything would have been improved simply by expanding Metatron's attempt at being a messiah into several episodes, if not the second half of this season.

I feel that this season just didn't have any valid stakes, either personally or globally. Metatron and the angels weren't actually hurting anyone. They took thousands of vessels, sure, but none of them unwillingly.

Abaddon, however, was actively engaged in a campaign against humanity. She was organizing demons to retake earth, was a Lucifer-loyalist and had soul-harvesting programs with the intent of creating a soulless army. Why was she not the primary antagonist? Her story was clearly more threatening and more interesting, yet served little more than a distraction to Metatron, whose goals were vague even when he was around to state them.

Height, don't be afraid to ask Alice to do a guest post or two. Heck, I'm one of the writers now and I just asked nicely.

Now onto your thoughts...

Of course you'll notice that the worst offenders are the Carver years, whereas the Gamble years at least tried to follow some of Kripke's lead. At the very least we can assume the S7 premiere even of the spontaneous, miraculous 2nd eclipse overshadowed whatever news waves Godstiel was starting to make, so that has some minor explanation.

Otherwise, you're spot on with this season being one shining example of "goldfish" writing: the methods whereby you forget anything that happened 5 seconds earlier and force the reasoning for actions as "because I said so". I've complained all season that Metatron is ill-defined as a villain, Abaddon only BARELY so, and seemingly everything written out of order or in rough draft form.

Without a doubt, this is THE worst season the show has had, beating out 3 & 6 and any other by a wide margin.

edited 26th May '14 5:47:23 PM by NateWinchester

I began watching the show late season six and only went back to the original Kripke arcs while waiting for season eight to premiere. While I now realize just how much seasons six and seven failed to live up to the original vision I cannot help but hold a soft spot for them even now.

Season six had the burden of establishing a valid reason for continuing the show following the apocalypse. I feel they made an admirable effort towards exploring the logical continuation of the personal and spiritual consequences of averting such an event. It was, in the end, just weighed down with too much going on at once. Eve, great as she was, should have been saved for a later season (if not introduced at all) and the concept of Alphas dropped entirely.

The seventh season had the misfortune of completely dropping all of the most fascinating potentials of the previous without even executing its own story properly. I at least applaud the writers for maintaining the Leviathan throughout the entire season and making an effort towards a sense of progression. Dick Roman was present throughout while his goal was a mystery worth investigating, even if it was ultimately simplistic.

Also, seasons six and seven at least made a token effort towards Monster of the Week episodes. Many of them were just as memorable as those from the Kripke era. The current season had almost none. They focused more time on the Metatron and Abaddon arcs without actually developing their characters or progressing their stories.

Finally, if anyone is interested, I contacted Rebecca Dessertine about her work on the War of the Sons tie-in novel. I found it interesting that her novel introduced a Lucifer-loyal angel named Abaddon who held a position similar to Gadreel's. She gave a polite "Kripke has said that the tie-ins are not canon" answer, but was pleased that I indicated her take on the concept was better executed.

well, my problem witj abbadon is that she seen to much like the yellow eyes demon or lilith, i can imagine be like the distraff counterpart of zacariah in the 7 season, be the dragon of luficer after ruby and lilith death, and trying to corrupt sam with geting everyting done....but right now i felt she is the artefact of the first seasons

Also i saw that there is a rumor about the fact that dead maybe be bisexual, what did you think about this? if there is anything in the show to suport this?

The 'Dean = bisexual' rumour is probably from the yaoi fan(girl)s or Destiel shippers to try and justify their ship.

I find it oddly convenient that the room Sam and Castle locked Dean just happened to have all the necessary ingredients needed to summon a Demon (in this case, Crowley).

maybe they like being easily summoned.