Tvtropes Conlang

Ooh, ooh, wait. How about having a combination of agglutination and isolation? We could come up with a system where agglutination represents Lumpers and isolation represents Splitters!

@Matrix: Two different dialects? Seems complicated. LET'S DO IT!!

I'll start writing up cultural affectations on the grammar now.

Wait, wait, wait. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. Have we agreed on using Zizoz's Mashup Chart? If so the next step is to assign letters to it, not coming up with laws of grammar.

It wouldn't so much be two dialects as much as two different forms of grammar in the same language. The difference would be whether you're being a splitter or lumper. If you're talking about two tropes that you think should be combined, you'd use the agglutinative forms. When you want a trope to be split up into constituent parts, you'd use the isolating forms. This could also make for interesting ways of indicating meaning within grammar when not talking about tropes. feeling lonely? It could be expressed by you using the isolating forms. In a large crowd? It could be expressed by using the agglutinative forms. What do you guys think?

I'm not coming up with laws of grammar, I'm thinking of how culture would affect the language. Culture has a significant effect on language and if we want to have a troper language, we have to think of what parts of our culture would affect it.

Best example is Japanese. Japan is a very traditional country, and likes to look back on the past. Also note, Japanese does not have a future tense.

Ah very clever. Also I think we should find a way to implement Wiki Words.

edited 20th Sep '10 3:15:02 PM by lockonlockon

That sounds good, but we shouldn't get into all the grammar stuff yet. We need an alphabet and a basic lexicon first before we can determine rules of grammar.

EDIT: Damn, you guys are fast.

edited 20th Sep '10 3:18:05 PM by Capt.Fargle

@lockon: Then what the hell is the -shou ending, like Kimi-wa shinimashou?

@Matrix: -shou and -tai indicate a desire to do something. Not necessarily that they will happen. "tabemashou" let's eat, "tabetai" I want to eat.

You can indicate intent but it's not a future tense as such.

edited 20th Sep '10 3:19:59 PM by lockonlockon

Ah. I see.

@Wiki Words: Probably just a form of agglutination, but it should probably somehow be marked as distinct.

@Matrix: That's my point, in writing, we write it as we would were we to make it a Wiki Word, but in speech it's just normal agglutination.

Guys, I don't want to seem like a pain but can we please decide on an alphabet? We can't really do anything without an alphabet to write in.

Also, what do you guys think of perhaps coming up with a custom alphabet that we can use as well as Roman characters? It would just be a matter of getting a custom font right?

@Fargle: And getting it installed on the site, which is a pain.

This is why went through assigning phonemes to characters, I wanted to have a simple and 1-to-1 written form to pronunciation guide so we could move on and do other stuff.

Well are agreed on using Zizoz's Mashup Table? If we go from there we can start assigning letters and work on the basics of word building.

Anyways, my proposal for the Troper orthography:
(Suggested roman letters below IPA sounds)

Vowels:

Zizoz's works, it's basically mine with a few phonemes thrown in. There were two I could not find sound samples for, but it all works.

I like Matrix's orthography, but I still think that x should be tʃ.

Wit, where'd k go? Where are the velar plosives? It seems weird to not have the in there.

edited 20th Sep '10 3:48:31 PM by lockonlockon

ACCENTS

Whoa, hi tze.

That looks good Matrix but I still think we need k and g. Other than that, no complaints.

Accents are a PITA to type though and I'm lazy :P

I meant that there could be multiple possible pronunciations of course.

That looks good Matrix but I still think we need k and g. Other than that, no complaints.

Zizoz's mashup table didn't include velars. We don't "need" k and g.

We don't need k and g, but I would like to have them.

I meant that there could be multiple possible pronunciations of course.

Oh, sure. Hell, I already have a distinct accent that replaces the alveolar trill with the alveolar tap. I can't roll my r's.

Okay, perhaps not NEED but more I think that they should be included. This is an artlang after all, necessity ought to be subservient to Rule of Cool.

edited 20th Sep '10 3:53:49 PM by Capt.Fargle

I tend to take the language/culture relationship with a grain of salt (for instance, the Eskimos don't really have that many words for snow). But designing a language to reflect a culture is different, I suppose.

Matrix, could you expand on the lumper/splitter idea? I'm not sure I understand it.

Also, we seem to have a lot of ambiguous symbols (p, b, s, z, o, u). Accents should be considered, or something else to relieve the ambiguity at least. If only because without them, we'll have to list the pronunciation for each new word, and that'll be just as troublesome to type. :P

And I may need practice with the bilabial trill; at the moment I can only reliably pronounce it after alveolar stops. Think I'll manage it...

Going back, I believe I had suggested that w represent [u], with [w] as an allophone? And possibly becoming [β] in certain environments (I like this idea more than I should).