An underrated part of the Magus Sisters fight (and by that I mean the final encounter in Zot) is that not all runs are exactly the same - sure, you will always kill Cinduruva first due to her healing ability, but once she's down the last bit of the fight is always a bit different depending on who your party focuses next.
I think that's more or less what YoshiP meant when he said he wants to spice up fights - introduce more and significant Boss-Altering Consequence type scenarios. I also feel like they're also gonna reintroduce more add phases and Dual Boss type encounters that Endwalker sorely lacked. Like seriously, I think Pandaemonium had like...one or two add phases in the entire raid series? Like once for P3 and a normal-mode exclusive one in P12.
For example for the next raid series, they could add something like Ornstein and Smough from Dark Souls: a Dual Boss in which one boss strengthens and changes moves once the other is down - so in normal mode you'll occasionally see one or the other, while in Savage you'll have to communicate and strategize with your team on which of them to get through first.
Edited by Makir on Mar 24th 2024 at 1:55:17 PM
I've had the idea of a pair of bosses that always has one do a mechanic, then the other does it again on a delay. And then a later boss uses the two bosses for their own mechanics, doing things and then doing them again, on a delay and with a different area.
Yeah there are a lot of simple changes that can be made to really shake up the boss fights.
Multiple bosses at once, shifting between different modes, making fight areas not be a circle or square with environmental hazards, ditching the horrible 2 minute meta, and so on.
If anything ditching the 2 minute meta alone would do a LOT.
Since Dawntrail is looking to be a love letter to FFIX, introduce the Black Waltzes as the boss battle of a dungeon. The gimmick being that whichever Black Waltz is defeated last will rise back up and get furious with a new set of mechanics that the other two don't have
Edited by Eldrake on Mar 24th 2024 at 6:39:58 AM
I'm only up to Stormblood myself, but there are a few standout mechanics I've noticed. Not for being hard, but they're just cool.
Pool of Tribute, the white tiger dude, the beam struggle against Diabolos 2
The absolute will-not-be-topped moment for me is Suano-o's intermission, where you catch his tower sword and absolutely Metal Gear Rising that bitch.
The Unknown
Ditching it would probably also make some jobs completely unviable for raiding. Either because your burst doesn't align with most other classes or it comes up at a point in the fight where you can't even use it due to mechs.
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
IIRC that was an issue with Paladin for a while, it didn't line up with the burst window and as a result nobody played it
Heart of Stone
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Not really, no.
Before Shadowbringers no one's cooldowns lined up and people dealt with it. Some lined up with X fight while others were better for another. It kept each fight and each class was different so it wasn't just the same really boring ass cooldown rotation.
Right now the 2 min cooldown rotation is a major reason why bosses are becoming stale, there is absolutely no variation. They changed paladin to fit in with this boring ass 2 minute rotation and completely wrecked the class, it went from the funnest tanking class to just being a bad unfun Gunbreaker.
Like its right up there with changing of Cards for Astro and removal of bane for SCH in the bad class decisions they have done in this game. Just ripping the fun out of a class to cater to the .1% via over optimization.
Edited by Memers on Mar 24th 2024 at 9:26:45 AM
The Unknown
1.) A lot of classes functionally lined up to the 2 minute meta in some way back in ShB. You just had weird outliers like BRD having their self-buff be a 110 second cooldown, Shadow Fang on NIN being affected by GCD, or GNB having 90 on Bloodfest that they all drifted because why the hell wouldn't you. And AST would prep a card pre-pull and burn through 3 immediately to have Divination up during the opener and be set for the rest of the fight. All the devs did is streamline stuff.
2.) Have you done Extremes or Savages like. At all? Because those fights aren't samey. I'd argue most of the fun and challenge comes from trying to keep uptime while knowing mechs and dodging them anyway. I've personally found a shitton of satisfaction playing as SCH for weeks of Golbez EX farming (I have a pic of my 99 totems to prove it) because l knew the fight like the back of my hand. I saved several clears by being the only one to not die and perfectly timing Healer LB3 during a body check mech. And speaking of: I'd also argue that Endwalker actually got too punishing for some fights being constant body checks that wipe you instead of giving damage downs. Makes prog a huge bitch. The issue is more normal content being dumbed down, and this is not really tied to the 2 minute burst. Fun fact: Nier raid fights still kind of line up with 2 minute burst while Thaleia is paced so weirdly that you're forced to drift at several points. And fwiw, P 3 S add phase came up during burst and you didn't want to immediately kill the birds anyway.
3.) I cannot speak for PLD mains but I always found the class super awkward to play even before the rework. And I say that as a tank main, so I feel like my perspective still has some merit there. AST changes were dumb, though. Made me drop it, but I found solace in being a SCH secondary so eh.
Edited by Karxrida on Mar 25th 2024 at 1:12:01 AM
If a tree falls in the forest and nobody remembers it, who else will you have ice cream with?
Over Streamlined. Every healer has the same dps kit, every tank has the same basic dps kit and the same defensive cooldown structure. And EVERYBODY has the same identical 2 min cooldown window. You couldn’t ever give SMN a new move for its summons or else you would ruin their two minute rotation. They have designed themselves into a wall for every class but it is especially clear with SMN.
And yes, I have done high end content. And while there are a lot of repeated mechanics between the various fights that isn’t what I was talking about, all the fights are built around the 2 minute burst phase in their dance. The group burst phase needs to change and variety needs to be added.
And PLD was a 90 second rotation with some build up, it was super satisfying to pull off. Now there is no build up and most of the changes just rip straight from GNB and make it clunky all in the name of the dps window.
Edited by Memers on Mar 25th 2024 at 5:55:16 AM
The biggest problem with the combat design in XIV is that DPS is pretty much the only thing that matters now, and that kind of mentality was what led the raid design of Endwalker to be how it became: massive hitboxes so melees never lost uptime, two-minute meta so that players intuitively know when to do their big bursts (and the fights themselves are designed around it), little to no adds, bosses becoming untargetable during movement-heavy mechancis (like P 9 S soccer), bosses automatically repositioning, and so on.
I honestly wouldn't mind if Savage raids became easier and DPS checks less tight if the upside was that they became more varied and less formulaic.
Edited by Makir on Mar 25th 2024 at 2:54:34 PM
I'm getting the "too long" warning on the First page. Should we split off sin eaters into their own page? I should probably get around to giving Elidibus his own page too...
Edited by reppuzan on Mar 25th 2024 at 8:34:50 AM
Team Rocket Boss.
Yeah, Sin Eaters could use their own page.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Team Rocket Boss.
The perfect flam for Reapers.
Glad that it looks flattering on a Xaela.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
The post-Stormblood story is getting a little too bloated for it's own good.
Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.
Team Rocket Boss.
Gotta juggle TWO different countries.
Granted, Doma gets the lion share of the attention for obvious reasons.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
Stormblood really did suffer from having to be both the Doma expansion and the Ala Mhigo expansion.
I'd say that Ala Mhigo probably suffered more than Doma did, by being split in half by the far eastern stuff.
Team Rocket Boss.
Plus like, you could tell the dev team vastly preferred the Doma section over the Ala Mhigo section.
HIEN had a playable moment, but not Lyse for example.
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
I don't think it's controversial that Ala Mhigo got the short end of the stick in terms of development, but I'm not sure if it's right to say that the devs didn't care about Ala Mhigo as much.
Doma's story is probably more emotionally resonant because large chunks of it are handled by Natsuko Ishikawa, who wrote the DRK and ALC stories and would go on to be the head writer of Shadowbringers and Endwalker. Banri Oda is the CBU3 loremaster for FFXIV, so his writing is less feels-heavy than Ishikawa's style and more to the point. He also handles political intrigue and moral ambiguity better than Ishikawa on average (see his writing for Fordola grappling with her I Did What I Had to Do mindset to justify her murder of her closest friends on Zenos' orders and later Lyse enlisting her to fight Lakshmi).
Though on the topic of Stormblood, what were your guys thoughts on it as a whole? I'm aware that it's flawed, but I honestly think it doesn't deserve its reputation as the "worst" expansion and that its leading characters (i.e. Lyse and Zenos) get way too much flack. If you think the criticisms are deserved, what would you have changed about it?
Edited by reppuzan on Mar 26th 2024 at 10:16:04 AM
Team Rocket Boss.
I'm saying this as someone who likes Stormblood but if the game wanted to sell Lyse as a leader, then it needs to actually show her leading.
Plus her arc is all over the place.
For as big a deal as she’s making about how she’s going to be her own person and not imitate her dead sister…she doesn’t act any different. She’s still impulsive, peppy, kind, and a little dim, the same as when she was pretending to be Yda. If the writers wanted to show that Lyse is learning to be herself, they should have had more differences between Lyse now and Yda, because otherwise it just muddles the message.
And to top it all off, she goes back to wearing a dress that Yda used to wear.
And I will argue that the writers just generally cared more for the Doma side of the plot. Ala Mhigo got one patch to wrap up most of it's post SB plot, while Doma got three to wrap up it's plot AND set up most of the next one.
Like I said, HIEN got the playable moment reserved for important characters, usually scions, not Lyse. That to me, is the crowning example of the writers just preferring the Doma side of the plot over the Ala Mhigan side.
Edited by RedHunter543 on Mar 27th 2024 at 1:24:40 AM
I'll teach you a lesson about just how cruel the world can be. That's my job, as an adult.
I would agree that Stormblood is the worst expansion. But I'd also probably put Endwalker as the second-worst, so approach my read from that perspective.
That doesn't mean they're bad, overall, but if you're gonna do an order then something has to come last.
Edited by RedSavant on Mar 27th 2024 at 3:28:37 AM
It's been fun.
The diabolos fight would be fine if there was some clue on the floor as to what symbol will appear on which door. Even if it changes mid-combat. As it stands, it's a bit poorly designed.
The mech in itself is fine (and extremely well used in the Dalriada).
There are a number of very good bosses though. Sloppy boy, the Yol, Hrodric, Aenc Thon, Therion, Lugus...I think most of the Endwalker bosses (except for the Magus) have been undercooked actually, they should have been a tad tougher or more complex mechs-wise at least. Even though it can sometimes, be frustrating, it's nice when a boss requires everybody to do the mechs a bit.