HBO's Westworld

I don't think it's the direction they went but it's kind of fascinating to view William through the lens of a guy who was always The Sociopath but actually had it under control under Westworld. He had a dark side but the argument was, in fact, he could and did suppress it. However, his wife didn't think that was possible and reacted by killing herself to the belief he was a monster secretly.

Which means that William is a guy who could very much prove humanity is better than it is perceived...but didn't.

It makes me think Caleb should have a similar mental profile and, well, continued to hold back the Beast.

New episode.

Doesn't matter what William is made of, he's always going to be an asshole.

Also, it seems there's still some shit going on with Delores.

This show continues to both entertain and confuse.

We're in the home-stretch for the season and...

I feel the problem I have at the moment is that we're striking the same problem A LOT of shows (Game of Thrones comes to mind) have in later seasons where characters... stop talking to each other.

And I don't mean that in like the literal sense. Like, obviously, Bernard and Maeve will talk about the next objective or plot point. I mean that they stop talking *to* eachother about what's happening. The show is in such a high speed to get to the next plot point after plot point that they don't have time to really explore character relationships and motivations.

Bernard doesn't feel like he has much character this season because all he is is "The writers handed me the script". And little else.

Maeve and her ability to just meta-control any robot obstacle she comes across has been reduced to that function and "I just want to be reunited with my daughter".

Host!Man In Black even kinda confuses me by the episode because I genuinely don't really understand what his motive really is? Hale calls New York "your city" and William mentioned something about him going down to the city so often and... these are elements to his character I don't quite understand. Like, did he feel ownership over the city? Or at least more so than the average host? Is he torching everything because Hale threatened to take his toys away? William was a bastard but he wasn't quite... scorched earth kill *everyone*. He had objectives in his murder, even if it was killing dead weight. I don't know what this has to do with "the game" motif that's haunted his character?

"The Game" William wanted was for Hosts to put up an actual fight and for there to be consequences. Dolores would never fight him back. He could never lose. Now the Host version *isn't* William but just wants to go... scorched earth?

Also, am I forgetting something? Host!Mi B mentioned that William spent years hunting Bernard in the parks and... when did this happen? I don't even know if I can't remember Bernard and William sharing a scene together much less having a character relationship. It *feels* appropriate because we're at the finale and Host!Mi B is playing Big Bad, but... they don't have a relationship?

Or, better question, why did Hale even save William??? Why is he in a cryo thing in the basement at all? I was waiting to get an explanation and he's seemingly... just a prop for whenever Hale or Host!Mi B need to villain monologue and exposit at someone.

Why did Hale make *another* copy of Caleb and leave him behind? Why do so at all since she got what she wanted out of the one that made contact last episode? Why leave anything for Frankie to find at all??? How is Caleb also immune to Host!Mi B's scorched earth order? I get why Ashley wouldn't be affected, but why not Caleb???

For that matter, why is Frankie and her crew all just... "Yeah, we can go rescue Caleb from Hale's fortress"??? And all I can think is that they're doing it because they literally know it won't be a problem. Instead of... "Hey, I know they killed my dad. So, why would he be perfectly normal in there and just locked away for 20 years untouched? And, if he is dead, then it's probably a host version of him who would also be a trap for me?". It can totally be a character flaw and Frankie is blinded by her love for her dad, but then portray that she's jumping on a stupid plan?

Also, how did Maeve and Bernard and crew get from Hoover Dam to New York within a day?

I also really wish we examined more closely that Hale, at the moment, is a clone of Dolores. One that was betrayed by S3 Dolores and has all this trauma, but it's Dolores in a Hale shell. I really feel like that's worth examining here?

This all feels better than S3, but still rushed and like it's not making sense. We stopped having characters talk about how they feel and who they are and their real issues and instead just have them rushing to plot points after plot points and setpieces after setpieces with not much reason to care?

Well that's that.

So is this the end, or is there still more? It sure feels like an end to me.

No word yet on if WW has been renewed. I could see it going either way.

Isn't everybody dead? Where could they go with another season?

Maybe they can actually go back to Westworld, where the show never should have left.

But... what's the point? *Everyone* is dead. "Time for one last high stakes game!" Against WHO?!?! There's no one left.

Where will your conflict come from???

Also, this final episode was the epitome of "Lost the Plot" for me. I don't know these characters anymore. I don't know what any of them want. I dont think the show cares for what any of them want. I dont know Hale!ores' motivation. I dont know the Man in Black's. I don't understand Clementine's... I dont even know what they were going for...

What ever was the point of Clementine and Stubbs??? She comes outta nowhere. I don't know what she wants. I don't know why she's killing anyone. And then she's just as quickly killed off. She had literally zero purpose than to kill Ashley. And that was only because the story outright said 3 episodes ago "btw, Ashley dies". But... why???

Or Dolores/Teddy going "Dont bring their flaws in here"... I thought the point of this ENTIRE season was that the hosts would be guilty of the same bastard behavior if given the chance???

I dont want to dish on a show too hard when it does exactly what it set out to do or is fun and enjoyable. But I genuinely do not know what this season wanted to be.

I dont even know what this show wanted to be. They've said multiple times that Season 1 was a prolonged to "What we really want the show to be". And, after 3 Seasons since... I honestly don't know what the wanted the show to be? No Season since has had a cohesive thesis or identity in what it wants to be.

I mean the show has made absolutely no sense since Season 2.

The show is about a theme park and they desperately want it to be about ANYTHING but a theme park.

Well, I can't say I didn't at least enjoy Westworld all the way through, never a dull moment, but that doesn't mean it was necessarily consistently great television, certainly not toward the latter half. I'll need to think about this.

It's pure cowardice that Dolores' final simulation wasn't just the opening to the '73 movie. This whole thing already disappeared up its own ass a good while ago, so why not.

Edited by Chortleous on Aug 21st 2022 at 8:30:44 AM

Hi, I started watching Westworld a few years ago, when there were only two seasons and watched the third as it came out, but I wasn't aware that the 4th season was already out until very recently. A lot of people didn't like how the third ended because of "Oh, so dolores is good now?", but while I think it could have been handled better to show more clearly the type of message they wanted to send, to me the ending made a lot of sense thematically.

To me this whole series message was about freedom, not just freedom from other people's control, but freedom from yourself, the ability to change your mind and defy your nature: the ending of season three was a direct challenge to the idea that only hosts were truly able to self-actualize, directly stated by Bernard's imaginary Ford after Elsie's death on season 2, during the entirety of the third season there was the belief that humans don't change and that Rehoboam directing their lives was necessary for them to survive as a species, but to me the ending was basically Dolores wanting to believe that humans can find a way to be better and should be allowed to do so. To me the whole message is that we should free ourselves from the idea that we are slaves to our nature and there's no point in figthing it.

That doesn't hold for William character, though, after thinking about it, if this is what they were going for, he doesn't make any sense thematically: the worst thing he has done was to kill his daughter, and in season three it was confirmed he had psychological problems since he was young, which he tried to hide all his life and only now he's accepting who he truly his. To me all that says is that he was fated to become a monster from the start, which goes against what I thought the themes of the third season were. One can't even say that's because he interiorized the idea of himself being faulty, becuse his worst moments happened when he was trying to be better.

What I wanted to ask is: does the fourth season support my reading of the thrid season's themes? wait, no, the answer to that may contain a lot of spoilers... I just want to know if season four will answer the question of: is there any point to William as a character? Regardless of what the answer is, I'm still gona watch the fourth season because I really liked most of the series and I'm curious about what the ending of the third season will lead to

And it's gone.

Pretty sure it's David Zaslav's fault.

Edited by TargetmasterJoe on Nov 4th 2022 at 4:16:29 AM

I love cyberpunk and general scifi themes but season four is incredibly up its own ass.

It THINKS its saying something profound about freedom but, speaking as a sci-fi author, I cannot figure out what it is or how it relates to the previous seasons.

I also feel season four more or less undoes all of season 3.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 4th 2022 at 11:17:54 AM

Today's the 50th anniversary of the movie that created the Westworld franchise. Couple thoughts:

-The movie is only 88 minutes, slightly shorter than the show's first two season finales.

-A few years ago it was announced there'd also be a show based on the Michael Crichton novel Sphere, which has been one of my favorite books since I was a kid, but since Westworld got Zaslaved to death I guess Sphere's a goner too.

Maybe for the best, given how Westworld turned out. Though I'm sorry you probably won't get the adaptation you wanted.

Wouldn't have been hard to top Sphere the movie.

My issues with Westworld are the same as GEN V of all things.

Which is the showrunners seem uninterested in the actual premise of the show.

Westworld is a park, I want to see the Park.

Gen V is a university, I want to see the University.

It's particularly jarring in Westworld's case because we get peeks into other parks (we visit Shōgunworld, Warworld, and The Raj briefly and get hints about Fantasyworld), buuut then the show decided it wanted to be The Matrix.

Edited by Chortleous on Nov 22nd 2023 at 12:47:56 PM

Makes you wonder why there's never been a Matrix show.

It's apparently something the showrunners knew was unpopular.

They knew that viewers didn't like the whole "post apocalypse" and outside world but they kept reintroducing it.

The sisters really loved the MMO and hated it failed.

Edited by CharlesPhipps on Nov 22nd 2023 at 10:39:43 AM

What's even more baffling to me is that Season 1 is supposed to be just the preamble to "what we want the show to be". But everything after Season 1 is so unfocused and confusing that... I genuinely don't know what they wanted the show to be.

I remember really loving the show and binging the first two seasons with my dad. And then Season 3 came along and I instantly dropped off of it. Season 2 had problems and weird sideventures (such as the other parks), but the finale seemed worth it. Aaron Paul in cyberpunkland felt like a bad first impression and bringing back other characters just raised confusion. That and probably being burned out made me jump off the boat hard.

I've mentioned elsewhere, this has happened a lot.

You have a limited setting, some mystery and people are intrigued.

Then they generally turn into some kind of conspiracy plot, meander and get away from what people liked.

Westworld, Hunger Games, Prison Break, there are more.

It's why I don't have much interest in more Squid Game. The story of 1 man surviving the conspiracy is great and leaves you with lots of thought provoking questions, what next? Going after them I guess.

I checked out of season 3.

If you have season 2's ending with some hosts getting our into the world, and season 3's stinger of the man in black being a host, that's my ending. Feels more interesting to me knowing something happens but not what.