Netflix Daredevil

So, you didn't like Netflix!Daredevils' Fisk, I take it?

My stance on him is that, yes, for most of the season, he's not the mighty crimelord that he usually is in the comics, but that's because we're still seeing him become that mighty crime-lord. As has been pointed out before, this was as much of an origin story for Fisk as it was for Murdock, and if he can figure out a way to get some good PR back, he might finally become the true Kingpin once next season rolls around.

Imprisoned early Kingpin.

It will hopefully go better for him on the show then it did under the pen◊ of Jason Aaron.

If it's that bothersome, just imagine it's a (relatively) well adjusted bug in a guy suit. Had the same irrational rage screwing up their situation.

I really didn't.

And I have difficulty having faith that he'll improve down the road because they put him in a position that's going to be near-impossible to rise to such a position of power and authority from. He's going to be locked up for a long time. The best future he can hope for is to escape from prison and be on the run for a little while before he's inevitably found and dragged back to his cell.

Convicts don't get to be titans of industry with limitless resources. He might be able to lead some criminal operations in the future, but he will never have the wealth and political power again. The Kingpin of Crime is supposed to be more than a tough-as-nails gang leader, and having been exposed and apprehended, Fisk can never be.

If this is supposed to be "the Early Days," then the Kingpin was strangled in the crib.

edited 22nd May '15 1:32:13 PM by TobiasDrake

Except Fisk hasn't actually had his trial yet, has he? I think there's a chance he can still spin things around.

I question if we really needed a 13 episode long origin story. Granted, it is not the longest Marvel ever did...the one for Skye has lasted two seasons by now.

The thing is that there is this huge built-up how dangerous and powerful Fisk is...but when it gets down to it, he defeats himself. Granted his plan to take out the Russians is pretty clever, but that doesn't change the fact that he basically did it because he lost his temper. I think if at least taking out Japanese guy was done in a way that he would look blameless, but immediately after it looks like he made a really smart move Gao more or less tells him that he reached to high. I also find his motivation different to understand. He says again and again that he thinks that what he does will make Hell's kitchen better, but he is never really clear about in which way.

That.

His actual goals that this conflict revolved around were pretty unclear.

1. Buy everything in Hell's Kitchen.
2. Bulldoze stuff.
3. Put new stuff in its place.
4. Fill the new stuff with crime.
5. ???
6. Better place!

Remember that Fisk never approved of the Russians' human trafficking. He just needed their transportation, and getting rid of them was always part of the plan. The problem was that he did it early, before he finished absorbing their empire, and without consulting the others, all for a petty reason.

I don't concur with the assessment of Fisk as incredibly incompetent. Taking out the Russians actually worked to his benefit, allowing him to hijack their drug-running operation for himself. Convincing Nobu to take on Matt got the one man who was more powerful than himself off his back, and left the Japanese in disarray, enabling him to move without worrying about them. Both those situations work out in the Kingpin's favour, and enable him to further expand his control over the empire, granting him direct rule, instead of having to act as a feudal overlord. It's not until Wesley's death and Owlsley's betrayal that things actually turn against Fisk, and even then, he's still able to stage a very effective prison break.

Betraying the Russians and Nobu was what turned Owsley and Gao against him, though. And that betrayal not only was his ultimate downfall, but was also the indirect reason Wesley died (if Vanessa hadn't been almost killed, Fisk would be with Wesley to deal with Karen). Sure, taking out those two had its benefits, but the hasty way he did it was a mistake (although, to be fair, he didn't had much choice regarding the timing of Nobu's death). Ultimately, I think Fisk was kind of a mix bag. He was not incompetent, but he did fell largely because of his own mistakes.

I don't think Fisk wanted to fill the new stuff with crime. It is probably the reason he was planing to get rid of his allies all along. He didn't want them in his new Hell's Kitchen.

Exactly. He rushed things because of Vanessa. That alone wouldn't have undone him, but combined with Daredevil's crime fighting and Ulrich's and Karen's snooping, it brought him down.

edited 22nd May '15 6:29:30 PM by Heatth

I think the main problem is that none of the other criminal's truly take Fisk serious while he takes most of them very serious. He clearly respects Gao, but she seems to be mostly amused by him. He is clearly terrified of Nabu or the powerful organisation behind him, and the interaction has a lot of someone who is indebted to a loan shark. He doesn't take Owsley that serious, but Owsley is actually using him all along. Even the Russians, despite being easily the last powerful members of the group, deliberately say his name and Vladimir outright claims that Fisk's power has a lot to do with reputation and not with real teeth.

And how is he finally taken out? Simply by managing to shine the light on him.

So i'm just now watching the series. What I learned from Episode 4 is to never Cockblock Wilson Fisk.

I have the feeling that "You embarrassed me in front of her!" will become the most iconic line the character ever had!

He really shouldn't have lost his head about this...

Or Anatoly's head for that matter.

That scene was one hell of a no-brainer.

Thank you, I'll be here all day!

This is on your head, good sir.

He really didn't have a good head on his shoulders when you thinking about.

I guess you just have to chalk that up to power making people heady.

The Russians were heading for disaster the moment they showed up. And Nobu's plans went up in flames.

Well, it's Nobu's fault that implications of him being less than competent in a fight burned him up.

Well at least he wasn't around long enough for the Hand to fire him.

And so Nobu went down in a blaze of glory.

I'm sure Matt felt all cut up about that fight. It was tearing him apart, even.

I was thrilled when we got to see a deadly Hand ninja in action. Then I realized it was actually Nobu himself, operating alone.

It was kind of a waste of the guy's menacing build-up.

edited 26th May '15 8:47:55 AM by TobiasDrake

Well, it was quite handy to use him.