[SPOILERS]: The Smash 4 Leak thread.

Eh, every reveal with this game so far qualifies as a Base Breaker. Even Palutena had some people crying favoritism, and she's one of the most popular newcomers. I think Megaman is the only one who's been met with universal positivity.

Pretty much it's been "X is in Smash 4? HOW DARE HE INCLUDE A POPULAR CHARACTER FROM X's SERIES." There's always a character people hated when it was revealed. Even vets like Lucario and Ike.

edited 30th Aug '14 11:02:53 PM by strawberryflavored

Mega Man has some of the most positive reaction, except for those who never liked 3rd Parties, and possibly a select few who don't like the series.

That said, Dark Pit probably didn't have a very high amount of effort put into him, just enough to be different from Pit, likely enough for a model change to help telling the two apart, and enough to be interesting.

But yeah, whether you like the decision or not, it would not have gone to anyone except another simple clone either way. It's either clone or nothing. None of those 3 require enough time or energy to be used on a full character at all. They're basically nothing more than extras at this point. For Dr. Mario, all they have to do is use Mario's moveset, a bit of model updating, a slight revision of Fox's Air Down A, and Luigi's Down B, and voila, you got his Melee moveset back perfectly. Or just nearly recopy over his previous Melee files, changing up the stuff a bit to match the newest game. Lucina does have the advantage of looking pretty different from Marth, so only changing up her statistics at best works fine(the rest probably had somewhat bigger differences, although that's kind of obvious with Dr. Mario being that he doesn't have an equivalent to the FLUDD. And Dark Pit doesn't really have many choices beyond more Uprising weapons, but he couldn't be a quick addition unless he was still very cloney. Like Pichu-level clone. We don't know when he was added, though. Could've been somewhat early on, could've been far later. It probably is easy to tell depending the level of differences, or what Sakurai says during his reveal way later).

Do they have the same voice actor?

Same voice actor, though Dark Pit's voice is slightly deeper and gruffer-sounding.

How are they even going to do Pittoo's costumes? I mean, he used to BE a costume.

Not sure it matters. Since we got him wielding the Dark Pit staff, it'll be easy to tell him and Pit apart.

Since Dark Pit wasn't given the "new character revealed" treatment when the Palutena trailer aired but Lucina was when the Robin trailer aired I think it's fairly reasonable to assume that the decision to make these three nto separate characters rather than alt costumes was made between the release of those trailers.

...Beyond just not wanting to reveal him yet, what if he didn't get a character splash because he's a secret character? Actually, that's probably why Dark Pit, G-Dubs and Falcon all went without getting one while Charizard got one, those three are all secret characters.

edited 31st Aug '14 5:35:46 AM by TechPowah

The thing that's making me dislike this leak is the fact that Dr. Mario is in it. I'll believe the leak when he is confirmed.

Except Cap supposedly is in the starting roster and Lucina isn't, so who knows.

Dr. Mario specifically is what bothers me the least^note out of the things that bother me. Things I actually like, such as Duck Hunt Dog, I'm not counting here. I mean, of course I don't like that he's back, but at least I won't have to have the FLUDD if I want to train someone in the fundamentals.

edited 31st Aug '14 5:49:45 AM by BaffleBlend

Yeah. I'm not a fan of Dr. Mario's inclusion, either. In Melee, he was just an improved version of Mario. Why do that again instead of just improving Mario? He'd be much better as an alt.

Apparently Sakurai has a soft spot for him. There are remnant files for him in Brawl's data, too.

I can't wait about 12 days from now with some nice videos of everyone in action. The only thing that pretty much isn't 100% is if that's the final roster or not.

There might be more than one build shown to the ERSB. Which would explain why the roster looks so odd, or why we don't have videos easily available of every character.

Different moves. Plain and simple. Dr. Mario's signature ability is the Megavitamins. That's not something regular Mario ever once did at all. And vice versa. Also, we knew Mario's customizations didn't have that. Dr. Mario also makes even less sense with FLUDD. Plus, as Baffle Blend said, he encompasses the old Mario playstyle a bit if he uses the original Melee moveset, which is a bit easier for newer players to work with. I don't dislike FLUDD or anything, but it's not newbie-friendly like the Doctor Tornado/Mario Tornado is.

edited 31st Aug '14 6:31:51 AM by Irene

True, but that could've just been for testing purposes or as leftovers from importing stuff from Melee. Or because the Doc was intended as playable. Who knows?

I'd like to say I've got nothing against the original Dr. Mario game (It actually has strong sentimental value to me), I'm just opposed to making my Smash main redundant.

I'm fine with clones(Though I do agree that Ganondorf and T. Link should've had new moves),but I can't make myself like Dr. Mario.I'm more accepting of Dark Pit and Falcondorf then him.I don't think he's the worst fighter wise(I'll probably choose him over original Mario soley for the shock palm and the tornado down-b) but as a character he's my least favorite.He's basically the Mario model in an alternate outfit.He just feels lazy compared to other clones that have original models.

If it is really necessary to start adding clones to Smash 4, then I'm of the opinion that they should add a clone like Mewtwo before adding Dark Pit and Dr. Mario. I know many people in the fanbase would prefer that.

Mewtwo isn't a clone though.

Mewtwo is not a clone. ...Well, he is a clone, but not that kind of clone.

Dammit Elbruno, you stole my punch line.

Edit: All joking aside, Mewtwo > Dark Pit or Dr. Mario. I know a lot of people who are sore about Greninja's reveal still.

edited 31st Aug '14 7:40:19 AM by CassiusBenard

If were talking about clones, here's where I stand: Customization is a thing. Built-in decloner right there in the game, so you can set up a different combination of B-moves for said clone, making the only thing in common by them and the OG characters their A-moves. That's why I'm not hard on the clones this time around, I can just declone them myself by customizing them.

In the Miiverse post about Lucina, Sakurai explained why he changed his mind and made her a separate character instead of an alt costume as originally planned:

Dr. Mario presumably started off as an alt costume just like Lucina, with megavitamins in place of fireballs and maybe a few other minor differences. Then Sakurai later decided that even minor variations in gameplay were enough to merit a separate roster slot; I believe a magazine interview mentioned that they would have an impact on stuff like character records, but I can't find it right now.

I will say I would've preferred a clone Dixie in place of Doc and Dark Pit. DK needs all the help it can get. At least Doc has the excuse that he's a veteran. Lucina would be in the same boat as those two, but she at least got a cool reveal and is a fan favorite.

I think that's one of the things Sakurai had decided since long before Smash 4, and I think he's right in doing so: Practically every clone in Melee (and, well, Luigi in 64 & Toon Link in Brawl if you see him as one) had something that made them different from their originals and which affected their place on the respective games' tier list.

And of course, it would be feasible for clones to get some different moves from their original counterparts and still be clones (not semi-clones).