Mass Effect General Discussion (spoilers)

Right. Loghain too. It just seems like Bioware would be better off finding ways to build their games around those types of characters, instead of generic dark lords and space squid abominations that don't even seem to interest them all that much.

I think Malak was alright. Not very layered, but as a looming threat he worked well.

The Illusive Man is a villain in my book, and the character is interesting. It would just have been nice to get to know more about him in the games, instead of having to go through EU material. Also, of course, toning down Cerberus in 3 would have worked wonders - they should just have scrapped them out of 2 or 3 missions and replaced them with Reapers, so that the Reapers, not Cerberus, would appear as the most common mooks. It's basically the case in MP already, where the Reapers are the "training wheels" as far as difficulty is concerned.

I'd say LOTSB had excellent villains, especially considering their screentime. Citadel too (talking about Brooks here, although the failure Renegade that is the Clone never ceases to entertain me) but it was much less serious in tone.

I don't think the BW villains are weak. Kai Leng is just so bad that he overshadows the rest of the series, which had some interesting minor antagonists. In a game on a galactic scale, it's hard to have a villain that is both a personal and a global threat - and the former tend to make for the better characters (see Kilgrave in the MCU, for an excellent example).

Loghain is still a minor antagonist. He is a pain in the ass, but he is not the Big Bad. It would be nice to see what BW would do with lower stakes - because that's the case in almost every DLC, and LOTSB, BDTS, Citadel and even Omega got some genuinely good antagonists.

edited 20th Oct '16 12:40:27 PM by Julep

That's why I didn't put Loghain in my original post. He ends up being more of a mid-boss. He's still more effective at being what Kai Leng is than Kai Leng, though.

I think villains like Malak, Corypheus or ME 3's Reapers could be better utilized, that's all. As it is, they end up being too generic. Without the personal component to your relationship (which Malak does eventually get), they have to rely entirely on the constant, looming threat they generate, and the structure of the games tends to sideline them.

Tela Vasir was great. Petrovsky was pretty good too. Your Clone and Brooks were pathetic, but that was the whole point. Combine that with the DLC in ME 2 and 3 having better boss fights than the rest of the series, and Lair, Omega, and Citadel all have that self-contained episodic feel that Bioware always seems to do best. Sometimes it feels like the modular structure of Telltale's recent output better captures what Bioware wants to do in terms of storytelling than Bioware's own games. Although I'm not saying that's all there is to Bioware's games or that you could drop the other three-quarters or so of what they do.

edited 20th Oct '16 5:14:22 PM by Unsung

Well, depending on how DA 4 goes, Solas has potential to be the best villain of all of Bioware. Inquisition, say what you will, was when the series really started growing into its own continuity and it gained a beard. The events of the series so far has created the new villain so previous games are now really flowing from one into the other.

I'd say patheticness is Corypheus' point, too. He is essentially throwing a giant tantrum, but one that will result in the end of the world. Sadly, this wasn't played up enough.

The Reapers and Darkspawn/Archdemon aren't really the main villains per say; they're going to end the world, but only if people don't get their shit together. Loghain is the main villain of DAO, and Mass Effect focuses more on various subplots.

edited 20th Oct '16 5:35:33 PM by SilentColossus

I would agree. I wish they'd kept more of the befuddled old priest characterization we got in Legacy.

I'm pretty sure he has the same voice actor. It'd would have worked well if he broke down into his old man voice after being defeated and is too terrified and angry to keep the godhood mask on.

I gotta look Dragon Age up, but I may be lacking on time to do a proper series playthrough.

Related to that, went through 2 with every class and bonus power.◊ Damn enjoyable.

Hey, is Fortification any good?

Yeah, but Barrier is better due to benefitting from Biotic research upgrades and having no activation animation (Geth Shield Boost benefits from tech research upgrades, but the final evolution has one different option). All three of them are pretty much an instant shield refill and boost tho.

3 did a good job differenciating them, although Tech Armor's retooling was a bit of a heavy price.

edited 20th Oct '16 7:05:29 PM by Eriorguez

That's what I figured. Here I was hoping it had something going for it in 2.

Perhaps an Episodic RPG is the way forward, akin to a TV season? You could have your central hub town, have minor DLC (A la Destiny) that cosmetically changes things, updates conversations, allows you to pursue romances outside of the main story.

Then regular DLC you could subscribe to get which introduces missions, like MMO "Seasons"?

I know Valve tried being episodic years ago and it never really caught on, but perhaps they didn't have a good balance or had worked out the production timelines

Going back to what would have worked better then Kai other then writing him s a competent threat.

You'd have the nameless Cerberus Elite be just this nigh unstoppable monster that is like all the classes in one, He tactical cloaks, He Charge-Nova combos, He has Flare, Tech Armor. Think the Resident Evil Tyrants when he shows up Shit gets real.

and there is one person who it could be that would make total sense... Its Grayson's Frankenstein-ed Reaper corpse TIM's turned into his new personal attack dog

That way the final fight in the Cerberus HQ can actually have that proper crescendo moment when you think you've beaten him and you hear those Three glorious words

ASSUMING DIRECT CONTROL!

edited 21st Oct '16 11:35:51 PM by FrozenWolf2

Would be nice if ME trilogy got some sort of remake "three games in one with problems fixed and new stuff added" treatment years after when it becomes okay to remake games in this generation

I mean haven't really seen remakes of game newer than 16 bit stuff with new stuff added o-o Not often at least and even rarer outside of Japanese games

edited 22nd Oct '16 12:23:03 AM by SpookyMask

Mmm, Priority:Earth would have benefitted if you could interact with more people. I mean, Victus will be there in addition to your squad, but the only way to get Kirrahe to appear is to explicity betray Wrex in 3, the only way to get Raan is to let Tali die in the Collector Base, and the only way to talk with a fucking Geth Prime is to let Rannoch end in a low note.

I don't think it would have hurt to have those. Or mixed enemy types, not just husks, but also Geth platforms loaded with Reaper code, Cerberus renmants working with the Reapers ala Collectors, and hell, Collectors themselves in the final push.

Priority Earth needed a sense of Granduer and Scale, The set pieces are great... but are ridiculously empty for Reaper control territory

Why is it Dragon age 1 did a final stressful battle better then ME 3?

In the final fight Everybody in the party joins in that opening attack, You'd think the first drop in would be the WHOLE fire team together

It really feels, like they realized how much they screwed up with Kai and just knew they couldn't have an over the top final boss fight and they just kinda phoned in the gameplay aspects hoping the emotional part of the finale would cover the weakness cause really a large chunk of priority Earth is just Brute and Banshee spam.

edited 22nd Oct '16 10:46:12 AM by FrozenWolf2

Well, the Collector Base was mostly Scion spam and decisions; the Reaperbryo felt to some tacked in, and the lack of Praetorians was somewhat odd.

Coordinating the ground attack would be great, but, in any case, the endgame of 3 is quite similar to 1's. Small issue tho: it had the fucking Suicide Mission to live up to.

Bioware's final boss fights (and boss fights in general) have tended to be pretty lame outside of Dragon Age. I don't quite know why that's the case, but it is.

Dragon Age bosses feel like a better test of the player's game mechanic understanding. Mass Effect 1 boss fights weren't designed to handle all the options a player could have, so things like the Krogan Battlemaster and Husk-Saren are super easy if you know what you're doing, but that's just an example of one game.

The first time you fight an YMIR, a Praetorian, and a Brute, Atlas, Banshee, or Geth Prime (only the first time, and just because of the surprise factor). Tela Vasir. Your Clone and Brooks. The rest of the boss fights are kinda...mehhhh. But what I don't get is why they can figure this stuff out in Dragon Age, but not Mass Effect. I mean...spend the time. It's worth it.

The Shadow Broker himself is also quite neat. Blame the music and the WTF factor.

Also, the mirror match and fatal error at Armax Arena are pretty damn good as well.

Armax Arena as a whole was ridiculously fun, pretty much a much-improved version of Pinnacle Station. Plus the Cerberus Spirit Armor is insanely powerful. And yeah, Mirror Match and Unusual Scores are two of my favorite missions.

Armax Arena was a great series of fights. Just didn't cross my mind— is a boss rush the same as a boss fight?

Yes. In fact all a Boss Rush is, is a series of Boss Fights.

Well yeah, but I just mean Mass Effect 2 and especially 3 have a great combat engine, and the fact that the best 'boss fights' are just the result of mashing together a bunch of Degraded Boss fights is part of my point.