War in Ukraine

Yeah. From Yulia Tymoshenko's perspective, any neo-Nazis standing for her and her side are useful idiots. They get the asses in the seats (or the boots in the marches, as it were) for the protests, they're willing to scrap and take some police brutality for the cause, and she won't have to give them a thing if and when she's released and re-elected.

Her being released is a bit of a long shot at this point.

And the other side ain't likely to let her forget it if she did use them regardless of reward or there lack of....

So? The other side's pretty stupid with nationalists too, as already pointed out.

One story i read said that the protestors had devised a catapult for the lobbing of molotov cocktails

My point being, they use them, they're gonna not have any sort of lasting victory. Same for the other side, but the world is focusing on the pro-EU side for the most part. They have to be more careful.

In terms of far-right groups, it is useful to keep in mind that one of the three major opposition parties (Svoboda) has quasi-fascist roots, and despite its claims to moderation, there is still an uncomfortable aura of right-wing nationalism around it. (It might not be equivalent, say, to Golden Dawn in Greece, but it is close to something like Jobbik in Hungary).

Also, I can say from personal experience (I was in Ukraine last summer doing fieldwork) that there is a rather visible undercurrent of racist groups in the country. For example, when I climbed to the top of the highest mountain in Ukraine, I saw a Confederate flag with Neo-Nazi inscriptions on it planted at the summit. I also passed on the street in Lviv some guy wearing an Aryan Nations t-shirt, and I saw activists for Svoboda being active on many street corners in the west.

That's not to say that most Ukrainians share these views — they don't — but they are there, and somewhat more prevalent than what I have seen in other countries.

edited 20th Jan '14 9:31:41 PM by BokhuraBurnes

The Euromaidan protesters now have a fucking trebuchet.

Seems like somebodies got their dream chance to do that project they always wanted...

I am told, east of Bug the historical reenactors get really hardcore...

Go heavy or go home.

http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/21/5332726/ukraine-government-texts-ominous-orwellian-message-directly-to-cell

edited 21st Jan '14 6:59:16 PM by occono

"While it's not yet clear how the government did so — three cell phone companies denied providing location data to the government, according to the Times — it's the latest example of how much power a government can wield with only a little bit of metadata.

I wonder where the Ukrainian govt learned that little trick? Thing is, this is the short slippery slope toward prosecuting people based on their location during a protest. Just declare the protest illegal, and behold, instant evidence of criminal activity.

So I just learnt that two protestors were shot, forming the first fatalities in the protests. It seems that the violence will escalate and spread to all areas of the protest tomorrow.

Trebuchet you say.

...LARP is the new black, when you're carrying a placard (and facing bullets and tear gas).

"Free Company".◊

Not by a long shot.◊

'Freikorps', eh? And the guy behind him has 1488 on his shield? Classy.

All too many of them on the occidentalist side.

edited 23rd Jan '14 9:36:53 AM by lordGacek

I wonder when we'll start seeing weapons forged too.

If someone shows up with a styrofoam rod wrapped up in ducktape I'm going to die laughing...

I read the summary on Imgur. Man...good luck to these protestors. Shame America only cares about Justin Beiber.

Shit like this puts things in perspective how much worse things can get here I guess..

I kinda feel a bit of that. That's fucking bravery right there, defying your government and its riot police and standing up for what you believe in. I almost wish I was there...almost

It seems people really do give a shit; the Arabs, the Ukrainians, the Greeks, the Thais, the Occupy movement - people all over the world seem to be ready to stand tall, and they seem to be getting support from each other: If the Arabs can do it, so can we. That Tunisian vegetable-seller is a hero for the ages.

It reminds me of this great Woody Guthrie song; not because Yanukovych or the modern austerians are fascist; they're not, but because Guthrie grew up and wrote in another age of revolutions and hope (the mistakes of which I hope we won't repeat), and because of the lyric "people in this world are getting organized":

This ain't the same thing. It's not a clear majority protesting. A significant amount, yes, and they should have their grievances addressed, but this is far less clear than the Arab Spring was in terms of percentage wanting change.

The easterners are not somehow less simply because they like Moscow over Brussels.

Sure, but they're still doing it. Would that the British public or the northern Europeans had the Ukrainians' heart.

You could call it heart, but much of it seems to be that eastern and western Ukraine fucking hate each other, and this dust-up is giving them an excuse to air their mutual grievances. This election map from a few years back◊ gives some impression of the dynamics involved here.