Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Map showing the extent of control on Grayvoron in Belgorod.
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 16, 2024
- Ukraine conduct strikes against refineries.
- Raids to Russia continued.
- G7 warned Iran about giving ballistic missiles or related technology to Russia.
- Russia made limited gains.
"Proof" that the Freedom of Russia Legion secured Gorkovsky, Belgorod Oblast.
WSJ video on why the Kerch bridge is a huge target for Ukraine. Basically attacking it when they can is their giant middle finger to the Kremlin.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FQbOzxhJM8g
Edited by Ominae on Mar 18th 2024 at 12:29:16 PM
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 17, 2024
- Macron called for support and spoke about the necessity of Ukrainian victor for European security.
- Ukraine continues to attack oil refineries.
- Raids successfully continue.
- Russia made limited gains.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
and
Well, ~ArticDog18, congrats, someone seems to be paying attention to you...
Edited to add: attacks on refineries and raids, as you had suggested
Edited by NewEnglandPinniped on Mar 18th 2024 at 5:04:41 AM
I mentioned the raids and attacks on refineries, because it is the lifeblood and lifeline of Russia. If their production drops rapidly, Putin will have serious issue maintaining their war machine (fuel for tanks, aircraft, transports getting Russian solders to the battlefield, etc.), as well as primary and most important source of income. Things will go down bad fast once the production slows drastically and they can’t produce more fuel for military and civilian use, or for export. And, Ukrainians show how smart they are and how good their intel is, as they aim to damage the critical parts of the refineries, knocking them down for a very, very long time (replacing certain elements in one of the refineries would take around 2 years… without sanctions being imposed).
If Putin and his army won’t stop these raids, he will be in a very bad position soon.
While being a bit tongue in cheek, my comment was to jokingly agree, not just because I say so, but because events as reported by Risa reporting ISW confirm your insight, good work!
Now, it's one thing to attack right next to the border, another dimension comes into play with in-depth penetration. UA managed those drones all the way to Moscow. What if they target refineries here and also waaaay there? Refineries have so many advantages as easy targets, as you point out, parts can be difficult to source, but also storage tanks, etc., very picturesque even if they just smoke, with very sparse civilian presence that would risk collateral. Ukrainians have been in enormous contrast to Russian savagery in their attitude to attacking civilians.
Also, not just the direct impact that you point at, but also the expense to try some kind of anti aircraft protection, everywhere, because you never know which refinery will be next. Yay. Sigh.
A Russian T-72B3 Obr.2022 with a KMT mine plow, a "grill" and additional armor in the form of wood ammunition boxes was spotted in Marinka.
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 18, 2024
- Putin responed to Macron's proposal to sent western troops to Ukraine by claiming that there already are NATO people in Ukraine.
- Raids continue.
- Russia accused Ukraine of conducting the strike in Transnitria.
Oh, bother.
Schrödinger's NATO. Both too weak to be a true threat to glorious Mother Russia and also the only reason Ukraine is putting up a real fight against Russia.
The enemy is both strong and weak.
Edited by M84 on Mar 19th 2024 at 5:31:38 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
The Wanderer
Edited by rmctagg09 on Mar 19th 2024 at 5:35:12 AM
Eating a Vanilluxe will give you frostbite.
In there a contradiction here? Not like this “real fight” is a (direct) threat to Russia, at least for now.
Edited by Smeagol17 on Mar 19th 2024 at 1:15:07 PM
Oh, bother.
Of course the threat isn't to Russia itself. NATO is a defensive alliance after all.
It's simply a threat to Russia's imperialist ambitions.
Edited by M84 on Mar 19th 2024 at 6:16:48 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Also, NATO is so convenient as the mother of all excuses, for anything that goes wrong in the Rodyna, from now on until hell freezes over or the Cubs win another pennant.
Prices go up? A long wait for a doctor? No raise or promotion? Potholes in the streets? Kid didn't do his homework, he's traumatized by the NATO war. (This later might even be true, if teenager soon to be conscripted)
Look how much mileage the successive Cuban dictators got out of the "blockade." No matter that Cuba could commerce with everybody else, many countries even going above and beyond fair trade because poor little Cubans, whatever broke, which was a huge lot, it was the fault of the US blockade. There might be even a Trope description somewhere in this website analysing that game, because Putin wasn't the first and certainly won't be the last, and it's mostly a fake thing, with just enough believability that babuchkas will lovingly swallow it completely and light candles for safety of their democratically elected leader.
Oh so convenient!
Disasturbator
beware teh dreaded and feared army of Nato,they are legion!
New theme music also a box
Akhmed Zakaev's son is involved in fighting in and around Belgorod. He's after the Kadyrovites, but he made a dare to Ruslam Aguev to come and face them (FRL/SB/RVC).
Oh, bother.
Note how much Putin and cronies complain any time a nation joins NATO despite how much they disparage it. Conveniently ignoring that they are the reason said nation thinks joining NATO is a good idea.
Edited by M84 on Mar 19th 2024 at 11:33:57 PM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Pretty much. The main reason why a lot of former Warsaw Pact members jumped into NATO ASAP was because of how bad of an experience having been around Russia/the Soviet has been for them (especially for Poland and the Baltics) and they didn't care for a potential repeat.
Russia's basically an abuser angry at their victims for seeking protection from them.
![[down]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_down.png "[down]"){kind=icon}
Also, for all its flaws, at least NATO is an actual aliance and doesn't have a habit of invading its own "members" (unlike the defunct Warsaw Pact).
Edited by DrunkenNordmann on Mar 19th 2024 at 4:34:45 PM
Welcome to Estalia, gentlemen.
Oh, bother.
Let's face it. Nobody actually likes being in NATO. It's a pain in the ass, and it means letting other nations have influence over you to some degree. The only reason they do join it is because they don't feel safe without it. And they wouldn't feel that way if Putin wasn't on a fucking warpath.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Russian Offensive Campaign Assessment, March 19, 2024
- Putin presented FSB as an important organistation for Russias's security and sovereignty.
- Russia continues to build relations with China, North Korea and Iran to balanc out The West.
- Armenia is banning Russian national payment system Mir.
- Russia hybrid operations in Moldova continue.
- EU is working on aid.
- Commander of Russian navy got replaced.
- Russia advanced near Adiivka.
𐀀𐀩𐀯𐀂𐀰𐀅𐀡𐀄
I see Armenia decided they're cutting ties?
Secret Signature
Ukrainians took down a Shahed 136/131 with electronic warfare means.
They've been moving in that direction ever since they lost Artsakh to Azerbaijan, which is what their dealings with Russia was specifically meant to prevent.
https://sofrep.com/news/russian-special-forces-commander-killed-in-ukraine/
Ivanov Alexey, commander of the “Peresvet” Spetsnaz unit, was reported KIA in Ukraine.
V Kontakte reported it with some tributes made on his death.