Ukraine protests: Thousands march through capital
- over 100,000 by some counts
Ukrainian protesters besiege government building
Clashes amid huge Ukraine protest against U-turn on EU
Over 300,000 defy protest ban in Ukraine- "Fierce clashes erupt after protesters take to streets again, chanting "revolution" as anger against government grows."
What started as a protest against the decision not to sign an agreement with the EU seems to have escalated into a "Color Revolution" or "Arab Spring" style movement to force the government to resign. By some reports, the police are using violent tactics to suppress the street protests.
The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country. The current regime of President Viktor Yanukovich is part of that camp. The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society.
EDIT (2/24/2022)
This thread was originally opened in 2013 during the beginning of the revolt in Ukraine that eventually over-threw the dictatorship of the Yanukovyich regime and instituted democratic elections soon afterward. As of this writing, in the aftermath of the Russian invasion that began on 2/23, it is not clear whether or for how long Ukraine will continue to exist as an independent country.
Statements made nine years ago still seem relevant: "The Western half of the Ukraine has historically felt closer to Europe , and wants to move Ukrainian society in that direction. Eastern Ukraine feels culturally closer to Russia, and favors closer relations with that country... The current confrontations can be seen as a clash between these two halves of Ukrainian society." Some people have expressed the view that the confrontation between Russia and Ukraine, beginning in 2014, never really ended.
The invasion is also a result of certain grievances proclaimed by Vladimir Putin, the current President of Russia, and used by him as justification for armed attack and occupation. Western governments, and others around the world, have joined together in condemnation of this attack.
While we do not know what the ultimate outcome of these events will be, this thread will continue to be made available as a place to record news, ask questions and express opinions about the "Crisis in Ukraine."
This map will help track the latest developments.
Do not post anything about the Ukrainian military movement and strategy. This could actually result in casualties.
No discussion regarding nuclear war. As nuclear weapons are not being used by either side, nuclear war is off-topic.
When posting social media links, please (1) state the source [e.g. Reuters reporter? State-sponsored Facebook account? Civilian Twitter?] (2) clarify if it is fact or opinion and (3) summarize the information being presented.
Edited by Tabs on Mar 20th 2022 at 4:26:26 AM
Not uncommon, but the material situation for the Allies was never really at a point where they were so desperate for equipment that they needed to swipe it from their opposition. If an American M4 got destroyed or damaged, there were usually spares in the motor pool as long as the crew survived (and US tanks in particular were extremely survivable). Same with the Soviets, who generally compensated for higher tank losses by making more of them and leaning heavily on Lend-lease equipment. There was also less need to capture things like AA systems or artillery because it was significantly easier to manufacture these things at the time, and the majority of guns were towed rather than self-propelled and weren't about 50% circuitry by volume.
That said, the Germans were notorious for stealing everything that wasn't nailed down and cannibalizing it for short-term combat power, to the point where they gave temporary designations to equipment like French howitzers, lorries, tanks and SPG's, Soviet anti-tank artillery, and even British and American tanks, the so-called 'Beutepanzer.' The Soviets engaged in a little bit of it (there are reports of Soviet tankers using very small numbers of Panzer IV's and Tigers) but it certainly wasn't institutionalized on the same level as with the Germans.
The interoperability of these systems was lacking and the fact that they were manufactured completely differently and had a different manual of arms to the domestically-produced systems meant they were inevitably scrapped at the first sign of damage you couldn't fix with a bit of percussive maintenance. The Ukrainians are in a somewhat unique position in the sense that a lot of the gear they're capturing isn't that substantially different from a lot of their legacy systems, and since they still operate, for example, howitzers in the Soviet 152mm caliber, any ammunition they swipe off the battlefield can feed their own batteries. While the Ukrainian arms industry isn't massive, it retained the ability to restore Soviet hardware, and what they cannot repair in the field themselves they can have refurbished in NATO countries that still operate their own Warsaw Pact-era systems such as Poland, the Czech Republic, etc.
Edited by math792d on Oct 7th 2022 at 11:05:10 AM
Still not embarrassing enough to stan billionaires or tech companies.
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
Okay, I wasn’t expecting X-COM references here. It genuinely made me chuckle a bit.
Foreign Troper
Zelenskyy clarified his "preemptive strike" comment
Certified: 48.0% West Asian, 6.5% South Asian, 15.8% North/West European, 15.7% English, 7.4% Balkan, 6.6% Scandinavian
So it was the interpreter who tripped up?
I suppose, when you think about it, it's amazing we don't see more major incidents as a result of translation difficulties than we do. Translators do a tough job, especially when they have to translate in real time.
If my post doesn't mention a giant flying sperm whale with oversized teeth and lionfish fins for flippers, it just isn't worth reading.
The Crimean bridge is on fire and sections have fallen. https://www.reddit.com/r/ukraine/comments/xyj7rg/it_looks_like_part_of_the_crimean_bridge_linking/
Happy belated birthday, Putin.
Oh, bother.
Aww, someone lit Putin a birthday candle!
Disgusted, but not surprised
The law in the night
Well, about time that thing went boom!
I actually wanted to be Resileaf
That seems like a pretty significant event in this war.
It's a supply cutoff, this is a massive turning point. Backing up that area is going to be more difficult on Russia's part.
BLADE Pathfinders
Honestly, 9 months ago (give or take), official recognition of a Russian Crimea was the bare minimum expected from the war.
Now recognition of a Russian Crimea is seemingly the most Russia can get, with the chances of burning up each day
Silence is golden, noise is platinum. Keelah se'lai
Video shows that it was a suicide bombing involving a truck bomb...
Makes me wonder who exactly is responsible for it, either the Ukranians are resorting to suicide attacks which seems unlikley given how things are currently going for them, or the Russians have a rather large insurrectionist problem like has been suggested.
Nothing better than a jungle hunt.
Russia is now claiming that it was a truck bomb set off on the bridge, although at bare minimum Rob Lee thinks it doesn't line up with the damage pattern seen.
Footage of the explosion itself from CCTV on the bridge is now coming out as well. [1], [2]. Interesting thing about video one is that at around three seconds and right before the explosion what looks like a wake can be seen in the water in the bottom right, although whether or not it actually is I haven't the slightest idea.
And another video showing the extent of the damage to the bridge has been released. One lane entirely gone, the rail bridge is still somewhat on fire and definitely not looking good, and the other road lane, while still at bare minimum walkable, also took some damage.
Either way though, that bridge is pretty well useless now for transporting materiel, further straining Russian logistics.
(Side note: This is my first time embedding external links in texts. Pretty useful feature as it turns out.)
Oh, bother.
They're going with the truck bomb explanation since that way they can frame this as "terrorism". As opposed to a successful military strike.
Disgusted, but not surprised
Its not just telegram, its been coming from pretty much all the Asian sources following this shit too.
Also truck bombing makes sense when you look at the damage itself, the train was caught in the blast.... if it was just an accident, or a long range weapon the odds of colateraling the train are much, much, much lower....
The blast went off at the exact time needed to both destroy the bridge and take out the train.
Terrorism is a successful military strike though, they.... they realize that right?
Edited by Imca on Oct 8th 2022 at 12:16:33 PM
Oh, bother.
I don't think they do realize that.
Disgusted, but not surprised
The Power of Toons and Anime
The Russian military is now streched extremely thin. It seems very plausible that partisan groups would use a time like this to strike.
One could say Kerch's bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down...
I sense a reference ?
.... so out of curioisty I poked over at the russian channels to see what there saying.
....
There claiming it was an earthquake and that segment of the bridge collapsed due to "muddy substrait", and then the buckled track caused the train to derail.
...
I.... I wish I was making this up, I don't know how you get that detached from reality.
Edited by Imca on Oct 8th 2022 at 12:52:28 PM
Simply when reality disagrees with you.
Oh, bother.
Kerch's bridge is falling down, falling down, falling down...
Kerch's bridge is falling down, my fair lady.
Guess it's easier to go with acts of God instead of admitting that Ukraine gave them a kick in the groin.
Edited by M84 on Oct 9th 2022 at 3:51:09 AM
Disgusted, but not surprised
Figure of Hourai
Nothing better than a jungle hunt.
I'm honestly not quite sold on it being a truck bomb as of right now. The bridge evidently has checkpoints to look for this kind of thing and apparently the truck in question came from the Russian side. Also, I feel like a truck bomb wouldn't cause the collapse pattern seen so far and would have caused a lot more damage to both lanes of the road bridge at a single point, i.e. leaving more of a crater that could be seen on both lanes, not causing only buckling to one side and collapse along multiple points to the other. The lane from Russia is collapsed in a few sections, the lane from Crimea doesn't show similar levels of damage; only buckling and no section collapse, and the scorch marks on the rail bridge end a lot sooner then the location of parts of the collapse.
"What can X Com Enemy Unknown teach us about the war in Ukraine" feels like an article that could be written, at least in terms of a smaller squad taking out a bigger enemy and stealing their stuff.
Never trust anyone who uses "degenerate" as an insult.