Turkish Politics

There also seems to be some difference based on area of origin, with migrants from the cities generally being more liberal than the ones coming from rural Anatolia.

That pattern of behaviour exists around the world though.

No let-up in Turkey-Germany war of words after ministers meet

And so it goes. We also had a spike of Turkish espionage after the coup, primarily people going around asking other turks in mosques and at homes about people who might be against Erdogan.

I think it is partly because Erdogan actually bothered to show "presence" in Germany (unlike the Turkish leader beforehand), partly because a lot of the original immigrants were so called "Gastarbeiter" which tended to be from the rural regions (more recent ones tend to be more on the educated side) and partly because the disfranchised love so called "strong leaders".

Germany has made a mistake by not really working towards integration from the get go, but between the Turkish community some kind of "Victim narrative" has developed, too. You know, the poor, supressed Turk which will never be accepted in German society. There is some truth to this - employers are certainly partial to a certain degree - but one also has to consider that the Italians, Poles aso all had to deal with the same prejudices at one point, but with the years Germany society has become very accepting of EU immigration because, well, frankly because those groups tend to make an effort to learn the language and are usually pretty well integrated in second and third generation. The experience with the Turks has been way more negative overall. Though, to be fair, there is a sizable group of Turks which is very well integrated...but you naturally tend to see mostly the ones who aren't.

Doesn't help that Erdogan is trying to prevent people from integrating into German society. He wants them to see themselves as Turks first and foremost and said that "assimilation is a crime" - in his case "assimilation" already begins with seeing yourself as a German citizen, so that's a really low bar.

Turkish minister accuses Germany, others of 'crimes against humanity'

From all the things that he can accuse German government of, that moron chose crimes against humanity? *sigh* What is up with ultra nationalist right wing nutjob and projection?

His mindset is like the mindset of a 5-year-old boy who is farting during a party, and then, he blames others for farting, so no one will find out that he is the one who farted.

Cause it's the easiest thing to blame Germany for, but they've already called them Nazis, so they have to use something equally wrong.

While I wish that Merkel would for once show some strength and just forbid the campaign for Erdogan (which she could do based on German law), I have to give it to her that her reaction was classy. She basically called out Erdogan (and more or less everyone else who has used the Nazi slur in the last year) by pointing out that using the word Nazi like a petty slur is an insult undermines how serious the Holocaust actually was. Basically instead of acting all offended, she made Erdogan look like an a-hole for misusing that word. Not that his followers will care, but explicitly reaching out to the Turks living in Germany after this was a smart move on her part.

Turkey is trying real hard to become a pariah state.

Actually, Erdogan's trying to buddy up with Putin currently. So he's probably figuring that he can afford to lose Europe's goodwill.

He can't. Turkey is economically dependent on the EU.

Yeah, but has anybody actually told the guy?

Again, he can send millions into the Balkans, overwhelming them more than they were before. Or at least forcing Europe to use measures that will make them look rather horrid.

I'd like to point out that at this point I talked to a lot of people who'd rather see us try to deal with it on our own or become a Doomed Moral Victor than deal with Erdogan's shit anymore.

Millions? That sounds more dramatic than it actually is. Perhaps two to three million, and that is assuming that all of them decide to go to Europe at the same time (which is pretty unlikely). And should the refugee start to move again, they will most likely not take the Balkan route. There is no chance for them not to get registered in Greece, and a high likelihood for them getting stuck in one of the Balkan countries.

millions is not overdramatic, as I'm not talking about just refugees (who are by themselves over a million, so the point stands either way). Erdogan is going to push as many people as who are willing, if he feels the need, and he can do it to either Greece or Bulgaria. They will be forced to use drastic measures in such a scenario, and simply assuming it won't happen is foolhardy.

As long as they realize what they are getting into, fair enough. At least that point of view understands that actions have consequences.

On Mobile so no source but according to FAZ, Netherlands has denied the Turkish Minister of Exterior the permission to land.

He has already Godwin'd them.

Funny in a sense, since campaigning in foreign countries is illegal under Turkish law.

I hate that man so very much.

Why doesn't he just Skype the local "_____ Turks Club" or whatever?That's still a thing isn't it?And he could still totally pull the "oh they ain't letting me come,sob" victim card.

Because by not doing so, the supporters get to feel that loss, and thus blame the Dutch govt. Cynical politics at its finest. <sigh>

Apparently, he'll try to enter Netherlands by land now.

No english source yet, but the EU seems to severely cut down on its Monetary Aid for Turkey (which they give them as prospective Member to build up stuff)

edited 11th Mar '17 8:32:02 AM by 3of4

He wants to go to the Netherlands that badly, huh? Why? Is it because it's that important for him to be there or spite?

Spite and the PR Win of shoving it to the 'Nazi remnant'

And here I thought there must be something more than spite to justify this kind of stunt. How foolish of me.