Hearthstone: Heroes of Warcraft

2 Yeah, that's my impression as well. There doesn't seem to be a whole lot of point making your opponent burn cards unless you plan to drive them into fatigue. It might remove their combos, but then again it might just give them their combos faster; in any case it's not actively getting you closer to your win condition.

Looked up the namesake of the archetype (MTG's Millstone) for kicks - the Millstone actually destroys cards as part of the card text, (Well, forced discard...I think destroy has other meanings in MTG.) Hearthstone has no mechanics that force an opponent to discard other than forcing them to overdraw, so there's no way to do Mill the way MTG does.

Sigh. I know how to play against Mill Rogue but I've hit a streak of loosing to mill rogue, even as Hunter.

you're correct that destroy has a different meaning in MTG, but so does discard. Mill is just "send from the library (deck) to the graveyard" rather than either of those.

Hearthstone does have Fel Reaver, which affects its controller but shows they could use the MTG mill mechanic if they wanted.

Yeah, the Fel Reaver effect is actual milling (discard is to chuck something from the hand, exactly like the effect on some warlock cards, though the warlock does it to himself rather than the opponent).

Is it strange that I absolutely hate playing with any "Face" deck? I don't find them fun and I also don't find them that easy to play - they always feel counterintuitive and like I can never get the Turn 1 cards out at the right time.

It's pretty common if the non-scientific surveys that occasionally circulate Reddit are an indication.

It's understandable, but if Aggro is inconsistent, Combo decks are probably even worse.

I've been watching the EU Winter Preliminaries, and it's been... kinda disturbing. Not just because fan favourites and popular streamers / pro players are all getting knocked out, but more specifically because the decks in the matches shown are (mostly) the same load of Zoolock, Midrange Druid, Secret Paladin, Patron Warrior and Aggro Shaman (and Druid and Shaman always get banned). (Admittedly, Aggro and Egg Paladin were seen, and Zoolock with Curse of Rafaam for the Freeze Mage matchups, but your mileage may vary.)

When you have to play that many matches, you want to bring something consistent, and many Combo decks just got crapped on in supposedly favourable matchups because they just drew poorly.

That's exactly why Blizz is introducing Standard and making it the tournament format, to shake up the standard decks.

Hit 60 with mage!

I know I talk about it quite a bit, but I don't actually play mage all that often; I tend to jump around classes quite a bit for dailies and things. I just hit 230 wins with the class, though! :D

'Grats!

I know the reasoning behind the format, it's just that I'm a little conflicted.

I'm all for having simple-to-navigate decks, especially for scrubs like me. But there should be a way to reward more technically-challenging decks (like Oil Rogue / Freeze Mage / Patron Warrior / other combo-type decks) instead of having them wrecked by decks that rely mainly on playing on curve or throwing everything they have in your face. But as things stand, the best way to disrupt a combo is by simply forcing your opponent to waste their combo pieces on removal or pressuring them to death before they can draw their components.

(As a side note, though, one/two-card combos like Anyfin or Force-Roar don't reward skill, unless you're talking about the skill required to survive to the point where you can pull off that combo.)

edited 14th Feb '16 8:50:53 PM by Pyrite

I honestly think that combo decks aren't in a bad place as stands. They're a hella difficult deck archetype to balance (read: Miracle Rogue and Patron), and Blizz was all about rewarding decks that tried to fight for board control.

I don't mind combo decks, and I've played Patron enough to know the nuances of that deck a little bit. Yes, it's a difficult deck to play, but at the same time it is punishing as shit to play against, even in the midrange version of today. They kind of have to be inconsistent to justify the power of the combo.

I don't know though, maybe I'm missing out on some of the rewarding parts of the decks. From my experience though, they kind of have to be countered by those much faster decks because of how much they wreck in certain control matchups. You have not known pain until you've been rombo-locked down on turn 11.

Interesting Anecdote: I've tried to play Miracle Mage once. It was basically just freeze mage with Gadgetzan instead of Archmage as the win condition (It went 1-5; I no longer play Miracle Mage). Gadgetzan is not a win condition, apparently.

edited 15th Feb '16 2:02:17 PM by Brokenlampshade

Gadgetzan lets you draw into your win condition; it is not a win condition in and of itself.

While I agree that control decks need to have counters, it is bothersome that the only way to effectively beat a combo deck in most cases is to aggro it down before it achieves its win condition. It is not fun to inevitably die no matter how strong your play has been, and I say this as someone who loves Mill Rogue.

Nitpick: Combo deck tends to refer a deck that relies entirely on its finishing combo to win and enough stall and draw to get that combo in hand. Warsong Patron was a combo deck. New Patron is a midrange deck that uses Patron combos but it wins through board control. It is also somewhat easier to play than a true combo deck (though I keep making dumb mistakes with it).

edited 15th Feb '16 2:31:06 PM by Elle

Decks which rely on combinations of cards for board control (see: Control Priest's Auchenai-Circle, post-nerf Patron, Oil Rogue when flurry's not being used for burst) could benefit from getting additional tools to make their combos easier, but the finishers of Combo decks should probably be toned down a little. Staying out of combo range should be made easier for classes which don't run craploads of heals.

edited 15th Feb '16 8:25:10 PM by Pyrite

I may give up on this season. I sprinted up to rank 7 in the first two days, and now I'm down to 14. I don't think I'm playing that badly.

I do think laddering gets easier the later the month goes if that helps. I'm currently bouncing around 14-15 and I'd kinda like to see if I can make it to 5 this month. I wonder if I should try jumping to combo druid before it gets nerfed, I have all the cards except Boom. (Open to suggestions of what to put in that slot...I have Cenarius, I have all the adventure legendaries, I have Nexus Champion Saradd...)

edited 15th Feb '16 6:43:07 PM by Elle

Actually, some players recommend trying to rank up in the middle of the month, because the ladder at the end of the month is usually full of people trying to hit their rank breakpoints / Legend.

Cenarius sounds good. You should always have minions on the board as Druid, and if you don't, the 2/2 Happy Little Treants can help you to stabilise.

Going from 7 to 14 sounds pretty dire, honestly, especially for someone who can reach Rank 7 within 2 days. (Most of the big streamers I follow are usually still stuck at 7-9 after the first week, unless they're racing for Legend.) Are you sure you're not tilting? If I find myself on a losing streak, taking a break usually helps.

P.S. I tried playing Mill Rogue on Casual. It is... a crapshoot. It abuses Reno Mages pretty well, but the Renolock I faced managed to dump his hand pretty quickly.

edited 15th Feb '16 9:04:10 PM by Pyrite

Yeah being able to sprint to Rank 7 so early in the season is really good. The early days of the month are the single most difficult time to rank up, in my opinion.

You should keep at it. Two season ago I managed to go from rank 10 to rank 4 in the very last day of the season, so anything is possible.

And I agree with the idea that it's easier to rank up during mid-season. I started off the month with an absolutely brutal string of defeats. I had a 10 game loosing streak at some point. Things are easier now, been steadily making my way back up.

I probably won't make legend this month but I'll try to finish at least at rank 5.

edited 16th Feb '16 6:28:13 AM by GutstheBerserker

Seems like everyone and their mother is playing one sort of control deck or another :P makes the cheap decks I get to play kinda untenable to even get a quest completion

Play a solid Midrange deck and try not to overextend.

Meh. Just removed my kinda exciting but still overly depending on that stupid jeeves egg druid for the ol boring ramp druid and now it is doing better.

Still amazed to find myself mass dispelled by priests tho

I ran into something new just now. Control Warrior with Frost Giant + Charge + Faceless combo. It exploits the key weakness of Control Priest. If your opponent doesn't play anything, you have no win condition. You just sit there waiting for him to fire off his kill combo.

It's been around, just not common.

Arrgh. I'm playing Midrange Druid, suposedly the top deck in the meta right now. The decklist I'm using hit top legend and suposedly capable of 80% win rate. I'm familiar enough with Druid that I should at least be able to play with some consistancy. I'm currently 9-10 with it. It can't all be me, can it?

I think Trump once played around with a Cursed Blade Warrior and almost considered 2x(Molten Giant + Charge) combo. Almost.