Ghosts N' Stuff Remix
Shadowhog Sez: Kids, don't ever critique somebody over twitter if you have a lot of followers, because they'll try to poke holes in your arguments, and that's nogood!
edited 23rd Nov '14 10:23:21 AM by Jinxmenow
"Monsters are tragic beings. They are born too tall, too strong, too heavy. They are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy."
Ghosts N' Stuff Remix
Go on the internet. Engage in an argument.
Tell me this sort of engagement is not normal twitter behavior.
"Monsters are tragic beings. They are born too tall, too strong, too heavy. They are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy."
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It is still unbelievably rude and despicable behavior, though. Specially if never apologized for afterwards.
I am confused, though. Who are these people. How are these things even connected to Total Biscuit?
It is not white privilege exactly but it is privilege. They show disinterest because it doesn't effect them. It doesn't effect them because of their religions privileged. It is a versatile concept.
edited 23rd Nov '14 10:44:59 AM by Heatth
Shop Owner
I understand why can one call disinterest a privilege of the ingroup, but I don't think the ingroup can ever consider the plight of the outgroup at all. So calling it a privilege when it's a feature of intergroup politics feels redundant.
The moment a person starts to worry about the plight of the disenfranchised they begin considering the disenfranchised to be part of their political ingroup so the distinction becomes moot.
I have, semi-regularly. It's not normal Twitter behavior, unless the person tweeting is a totally reprehensible person who just types whatever immediately comes to mind instead of considering if a reasonable human being should be saying that. It's not like it's impossible to have a cordial argument on the Internet.
To my understanding, all of this harassment only started after the highlighted TB tweet, so it's more of a cause-and-effect two-and-two-together conclusion. A fair number of the people highlighted (although not all; I checked) are also TB followers. Less tenuously, at least two of the posts highlighted mention him by his Twitter handle.
Why not. Inner groups consider the plight of outer-groups all the time. Furthermore, you can be part of the same group as someone while simultaneously being part of different groups.
Like, I am a left leaning straight white male. Overall, I will fully support minorities issues although I care particularly more for sexual minorities. The fact I have great interest to, for example, whether gay people can marry, I am still straight myself, so I will always be able to marry anyone I wish. I fully enjoy straight people privileges while still supporting LGBT folks.
Okay. At most Total Biscuit is guilty of being careless. Not sure why this is a proof he is a terrible person.
edited 23rd Nov '14 11:03:13 AM by Heatth
The thing is, he's owned up to his mistakes and will flat-out admit he's been a royal asshole at times while telling people not to follow his example. The fact he's handled "it" so well while calling out the bad behavior on both sides and defending the correct points both have made is why I respect him so much.
Also, I've been insulted and accused of supporting "it" just because I'm neutral/support some of the end goals and have stood up for the reasonable supporters that got harassed. GIFT is a thing.
edited 23rd Nov '14 11:09:49 AM by shoboni
Shop Owner
That's the thing, Political leanings thrump every other ingroup, even sexual orientation, race, religion, and socioeconomic class. You are not simply caring for the outgroup (homosexuals) you are caring for the ingroup (socially liberal values and individuals)
edited 23rd Nov '14 11:08:39 AM by vandro
That, no matter other privileges you have being a political minority(conservative in a liberal area or vice-versa) won't be any less of a pain in the ass to deal with.
Mad Scientist Wannabe
Has he apologized for trivializing the death threats Anita Sarkeesian's been bombarded with yet?
Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
I wasn't aware he ever did that, he in fact called it bullshit and said she has a right to speak even if he disagrees with much of what she says in one of his long-form blogs on the subject.
Mad Scientist Wannabe
Well, he did. He said something like "These death threats shouldn't be taken seriously? Know why? Because she's still alive"
Of course, don't you know anything about ALCHEMY?!- Twin clones of Ivan the Great
Shop Owner
Now that's a privilege, of being male on the internet. He doesn't wrap his mind around the idea that the death threats are anything but posturing because he is not a woman and doesn't understand the "scared the woman until she shuts up" mentality of many internet harassers.
An aside: But they are still fucking idiots (the harassers) you can't shut up an activist by making their point for them.
They won't shut up period(as nice as it would be), people that stupid won't give up until the day comes their bullshit get's them an ass-kicking when they threaten the wrong person IRL.
I'd hesitate to say one (ill-advised)joke makes him a horrible person or is trivializing it. I think he was merely pointing out these people are "internet tough-guys" without the balls to act on said threats.
edited 23rd Nov '14 1:58:20 PM by shoboni
Mmm, right, that was another one that rubbed me the wrong way. He does have a rebuttal
here, although I at least disagree with his assertion that you can't blindly associate it with the tag when it's all-too-easy to find examples of such harassment just by looking at it - it's not concrete, but it's not the least-safe guess either.
Still good to know that he's apologizing for some of his gaffes. I mean, on the whole "weaponizing his users" issue I raised, he actually explicitly apologizes for that in the linked rebuttal. (It's buried in a fairly lengthy essay and doesn't mention specific instances, but at least it's there; fair enough.)
Moon◊
Both tags(as in pro and stop) have examples of horrible things like that. It's not exclusive to one side of the argument.
edited 23rd Nov '14 2:01:57 PM by shoboni
Amidst all this, TB has put out a video where he talks about game reviews for 30 minutes.
Lazy?
Those upper class European nations built their lifestyle on things taken from nations outside Europe that were either conquered or assimilated (spreading Western ideals and politics in such a way as to displace the ideals and politics they acted under before). If an entire society populated mostly by white people experiences privilege as a whole, then it works out the same thing no matter how many internal divides they might experience. Acting like that's not the case isolates the entire continent from blame, as if it were in a bubble where all its advantages were of its own doing. I won't deny that class issues exist in these places, but you can't forget that the ruling elite wouldn't be as comfortable if their industries weren't built atop a very global white privilege.
That seems a very limiting way to see things. Right leaning people will often support minorities. And minorities are often right leaning as well. Not to mention political stances are nowhere close to being monolithically (so being part of a "group" there means next to nothing).
Also, even if it twas the case it still doesn't mean I don't have the ingroup privilege which was the point I was making to begin with. Privilege are advantages one group has that others don't. And you can still be privileged while simultaneously acknowledging the fact and fighting against it.
How is that an example and the others aren't? I am really at lost with your thought process. I do agree with you at any hate. A lot of Total Biscuit most assholish moments comes from his own privileged position. He seems to actually be a feminist. He knowledge the the precarious position women have in games and in the industry and have spoken against that. But this is not a primary issue for him and he is a bit ignorant about it overall, so he says some dumb things from time to time.
What I am saying is that even at his worst, TB is acting more out of ignorance than of malice. And I really don't like the idea of holding one's ignorance to attack them.
I love how long he too his 30fps detour.
edited 23rd Nov '14 3:17:30 PM by Heatth
Ghosts N' Stuff Remix
Death threats on the internet have less basis than death threats in person, or through letters. It's part of "the culture".
Note that Anita took these death threats to the police, and they said the threats didn't constitute enough harassment to be a criminal act. Don't pretend that anybody would say these claims and mean them, except for delusional people who would be ticking time bombs in any direction you pointed them.
"Monsters are tragic beings. They are born too tall, too strong, too heavy. They are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy."
Shop Owner
A global white privilege, hmmmm...I'd call it a global european privilege or western privilege, their skin tone is inconsequential to their rampant colonialism like the scramble for africa or the colonization of the americas. I am sorry if I implied their current good standing is entirely devoid of historical effects on the rest of the world. I would be insane to not see how they archieved their dominance of global politics, given I am from latin america. And lastly, I am not the kind of person who likes to play the blame game at all. Ultimately everything is an accident of history.
@ Heatth: My thought process is very friggin' weird I must admit. Yes, you have the privilege of your sexual orientation not being considered wrong or unnatural, and both you and I believe that everyone should be able to live their lives how they see fit, in the sexual orientation context at least. These shouldn't be privilges but rights, privilege theory irks me because of that, semantics are very important to me. I am just rambling now.
I still consider those threats morally reprehensible, but GIFT being what it is and how stupid and impulsive the average Internet Tough Guy is I'd say the chance any of those people would actually do it is very slim.
It's very wrong, but the real danger level is low and I wouldn't be to worried unless someone she knew IRL threatened her or actual letters started coming.
I think this whole "TB harasses people when he mentions them by name" thing is pretty goddamn rich considering which side of the debate he's on and what side of the debate sonic-avvie over here is on.
"Monsters are tragic beings. They are born too tall, too strong, too heavy. They are not evil by choice. That is their tragedy."