Fallout 4

Rome also had a thriving economy and agriculture (unlike the Wasteland)

Also the Romans had like, WAY more manpower and ressources than even the FO 4 Brotherhood (Which is arguably the single most powerful incarnation of the BOS) does.

If I remember correctly one random encounter has you meet a brotherhood scribe from the citadel who dislikes the direction the faction is going. That could have been an interesting DLC, you could have traveled to the capital wasteland and discovered there is a Good Counterpart Renegade Splinter Faction of the brotherhood. Perhaps lead by Star Paladin Cross or even the Lone Wanderer.

How many years after FO 3 is FO 4 anyway?

Also the new Brotherhood Outcasts are good guys? A BOS Civil War be something they could do in FO 5.

Heh, they'd never make a game where you'd meet the Lone Wanderer, since they'd have to give him/her a gender and an appearance, which would likely piss off a bunch of players.

10 years

edited 26th Sep '17 8:02:16 PM by Ghilz

I dunno, based on my assessment of Maxson's actual level of competence, if he'd tried to have Sarah assassinated or pull a Uriah Gambit, she'd still be running the show because Maxson's a dumbass who can't even figure out that artillery is a bigger game changer than power armor.

And the Lone Wanderer probably got turbocancer from that time they activated Project Purity.

Maxson brought the Outcasts back into the fold by reinstating technoraiding and going full fash.

edited 26th Sep '17 8:01:42 PM by Balmung

To be fair, that's sort of a weird dissonance, coz Powered armor SHOULD be a bigger game changer than artillery. Since, ya know, Powered Armor did turn the tides at Anchorage against literal tanks and Artillery.

Of course, keeping his main base in something that can be taken out by... quite literally anything,,, I mean it's a blimp! is a stupid idea.

x4 The Lone Wanderer leaves Vault 101 at 2277, while the Sole Survivor leaves Vault 111 at 2287.

edited 26th Sep '17 8:05:01 PM by ITNW1989

Fallout 4: October 23 2287

Fallout 3, August 17 2277

To be precise.

Showing the Lone Wanderer would probably never happen but if they did they could have them wearing something all concealing (like winterized or enclave hellfire power armor with a disguised voice) to prevent there being a canon gender and appearance.

Then we have some long running Gameplay and Story Segregation because I'm pretty sure that a suit of T-51b armor isn't going to let you tank your way into Nellis AFB. Even from a realism standpoint, there's not much you could hope to wear that'll protect you from common 105mm and 155mm artillery, much less the enormous 305mm mortars used in-game.

Artillery is the big killer on the battlefield. If one side has it and the other does not, that's a pretty clear advantage for the side that has it. Power armor is, at best, shrapnel protection.

edited 26th Sep '17 8:14:32 PM by Balmung

You do know that Little Boots barely survived his childhood, that his family were involved in the kind of internecine warfare that would have shat all over the Borgias, and that the empire was far from safe in that time period, don't ya? Like three campaigns against the Germanican peoples far from safe. Which is incidentally where Gauis Julius Germanicus got his cognomen from.

And they don't have to show the Lone Wanderer. Just give their version of what happened to them. Maybe they died in the same, ahem, "combat incident" that killed Sarah Lyons to death. Or they really did become the Courier in New Vegas. Since Bethesda are saying nothing, for fear of fan out cry, almost anything's plausible.

@New Outcast idea: I'd be fine if conflicts within the Brotherhood came to light, but I think it'd probably be better to have it as more shadowy, internalised disagreements and factions than outright making a second Outcast group. The Brotherhood in Fallout 4 feels a bit more — on its face — stabilised than its incarnation in 3. Plus, the people who are loyal to "the Brotherhood" and its Codex as a wider thing (the ones likely to keep the Brotherhood name as Outcasts, rather than simply leaving and trying to resist in more personal ways) are the ones more likely to be loyal to Maxson and less unhappy with the Brotherhood's current shifts.

@Maxson and Lyons: The idea that Sarah could've been deliberately and maliciously killed and removed from power is a fun idea, but it's hard for me to take seriously the idea that Maxson specifically had her assassinated or anything. He has a motive that you could argue for, but I don't really see much actual support in the game suggesting it. If it's motive alone you could easily equally argue that it was just someone in the Brotherhood unhappy with their current direction. I don't need his fingerprints on a gun shooting her or anything, but is there any evidence or implication whatsoever in the game that Maxson shot her or arranged her death?

In fairness, I didn't actually join the Brotherhood in FO4, so I likely wouldn't have seen it if there was.

edited 26th Sep '17 8:19:16 PM by Lavaeolus

Well yes, we do. (Also Nellis' Artillery is another funny example considering that th cannons dont actually exist anywhere on site so ya know, could be a Wizard for all we know)

Also, Fallout 4 is the game most happy about retconning the shit out of game's tech and pre-war story so of course it's possible Fallout 4 no longer holds to Power Armor's supremacy.

Still nowhere the Capital Wasteland. Since things were quite safe away from the front. And besides, it's not like he was going off on patrols as a Proconsul. Unlike Sarah Lyon who did, and Marsxon who most likely did too (Since we know he fought Mutants Personally).

edited 26th Sep '17 8:19:37 PM by Ghilz

Yeah, Maxson. (Or at the very least, the guy or gal who put him up to it) Next!

I'm far from the only one on the internet who thinks Bethesda's story about Sarah Lyons stinks of year-old kippered herring, so there's that I suppose.

edited 26th Sep '17 8:19:00 PM by TamH70

To be fair, there's also far from one Person on the internet who thinks Vaccine cause Autism, so, ya know, your never alone in any belief :-P

Anti-vaxxers are idiots who believe chemtrails exist.

I'm neither. Then again I was naive enough to believe that a handgun ban over here could work to stop gun crime. Ooops...

So I'm not always right.

Wrong thread

edited 26th Sep '17 8:27:42 PM by LeGarcon

"Ideological purity and shiny power armor doesn't count for much when you're outnumbered 15:1."

I dunno, 15 guys vs. a tank, I'd still bet on the tank. Then again,I guess we don'tknow whatthe NCR threw at the Brotherhood. The Legion can beat the Brotherhood too through superior numbers.

Power Armor seems to be wildly inconsistent in how useful it is.

Of course, the Legion being able to pose a threat to anyone borders on Informed Attribute when most of their troops don't have guns, and their main tactic has always been to walk across a narrow Dam to attack NCR, rendering their vast numbers meaningless.

How the Legion was EVER a threat to NCR is one of the plot points of New Vegas that makes no sense to me. Especially when you consider all the assets NCR has.

Fallout's connection to reality is something truly bizarre. It's pulpy as fuck but fans want it to be realistic so badly. There is a touch of realism to it I guess but there are also blatant superhumans even beyond the player characters.

I have no problem with the Legion rushing people and stabbing them to death. The Legion -does- use guns in spite of the misinformation to the contrary but even if they didn't, we're kindred spirits in preferring running at and beating people to death over covering and shooting them. So how canI criticize them for doing what I loved to do?

I never said the Legion doesn't use guns. They under-use them, Which, ya know, tends to end badly for the side with less guns and more sticks.

That said, granted on the tenous grip to reality. This is a game with magical zombie making radiation.

@Tam: Now, now, not all anti-vaxxers subscribe to chemtrails. There's an entire rainbow of strange and stupid conspiracy theories and you can't really reliably guess which others a crank buys into based on just one of the crackpot theories they've latched onto.

@Nik: Actually, the infantry have a pretty good shot if it's just 15 infantry against 1 tank. Armor tends to do poorly without infantry support, but with it, the two form something more potent than either alone thanks to the magic of combined arms.

Infantry support is good for stopping enemies from running up and c-4 tagging the tank.

What do you call a tank that operates in an urban environment without infantry support?

Anything you like, the big metal bastard's usually dead.

As far as the House quote goes, I don't know if you should necessarily take that 15:1 bit literally. If we're talking specifically about the Mojave chapter, there's a big problem in not just that the Brotherhood are vastly outnumbered, which they are, but that their numbers are limited. The NCR, the Legion can both restock, incorporate new troops, force a draft, maybe move soldiers from less critical areas. (Obviously there are some limits here: once you reach a certain cost it really stops being worthwhile, and of course both the NCR and the Legion aren't literally infinite.) The Brotherhood is insular, cannot recruit new members on the fly, and cannot quickly replace lost soldiers.

For the Mojave chapter specifically, the Brotherhood were put in an even worse position. Against the wishes of most of their members, the Elder forces them to hunker down and try to hold on to one specific location (HELIOS One) at all costs, despite that said location is highly coveted by the NCR. The Brotherhood stationed there cannot beat the entire NCR, and even if they were to try to retreat they don't have any easy exit. All they can do is hold until they're inevitably whittled down by constant NCR attacks, amounting to a slow death for everyone in there. Unless, of course, Elijah finally gains proper control of ARCHIMEDES II during the battles — which, naturally, didn't work out.

edited 27th Sep '17 12:37:39 AM by Lavaeolus