Troper Communist Hangout

A place to hangout and talk for communists of any type and anyone curious about the beliefs that any of us hold. All are welcome, but I'd appreciate it if no one comes here with the purpose of antagonizing those of us who hold these beliefs. Please be calm and civil.

As for myself, I'd describe myself as an Anarcho-Communist, but not of the revolutionary stripe as a pacifist.

While communism as planned system of economy has been proven utterly false (Only used in North Korea now and we see what pit of hell it is. Chinese are fullblown capitalist, in 19th century sense), some elements of marxist doctrine fits my worldview. I'm Social Liberal as I practically follow both political philosophies to some extent. And I'm quite anticlerical and opposed to organised religion.

It's not Communism that's been proven to be a bad idea. It's the derivatives of Marxist Communism such asLeninist, Stalinist, Maoist, and the like (though true Marxism has never actually been tried, though I have low hopes for it), which is only a subset of Communism. The different types of Communism, such as Council Communism, Religious Communism, Luxemburgism, and Anarcho-Communism, the last one being the form I subscribe to. The majority of the different forms don't really like each other, for example, the Anarcho-Communist society of the Ukrainian Free Territory was crushed by the Bolsheviks in favor of Leninist Communism.

Didn't I say that it was planned economy that was the failure. Adam Smith maybe don't always hate your guts but is kind of a Tsundere, but still the free market is a better option for development.

Of course one of other bad things of Maoistic, leninist and stalinist communism is complete disregard for human life rivaling or even overshadowing that of National Socialism.

In my opinion, the problem with true Marxism, and with Leninism, Stalinism, and Maoism, is the lack of boldness. Rather than throwing off the reigns of Capitalism, and creating a truly Communist state, they have a transitional period. That transitional period is dangerous because people can gain great power under it, and might not want to let it go. As such, the country never leaves the transitional period. Indeed, that's what has happened with every Marxist state so far. They never left the transitional state to enter the stateless end-state of Marxism. Both Anarcho-Communism and Council Communism do away with this state entirely, and, indeed, none of the Anarcho-Communist communities that have developed in the past have experienced any of the horrible affronts to human rights that the different Marxist-derived states have experienced.

Of course, we don't have much data on them. Of the three that have historical records, the longest lasting one (the Free Territory in Ukraine) only lasted two years before being crushed by the Bolsheviks, while the one is Spain during the Spanish Civil War was crushed in ten months by every group in Spain, from Franco to the Marxists, and the one in Hungary was around for less than a month before it was put down by the USSR. It is possible that they might crop up after awhile, but I find it unlikely.

I have feeling that the Free State of Ukraine was doomed anyway. If Soviets couldn't have dismantled them, Poles would have done it instead because they were either:

1. For absorbing whole Ukraine into Poland in attempt to reestablish the Commmonwealth of Two Nations.

2. Or turning Ukraine into buffer state completely subservient to Polish interests. A client or vassal state in other words.

In the end Poles and Soviets simply shared it because no one could took over whole Ukraine completely.

Indeed. The only reason it survived for two years was because of Nestor Makhno and the Revolutionary Insurrectionary Army of Ukraine. I should note, though, that all three of the Anarcho-Communist communities collapsed because of external military forces. The ones in Spain from the forces of the Francoists, Republicans, and Marxists who ganged up on them, the ones in Ukraine from the Bolsheviks, and the ones in Hungary from the USSR. None of the collapsed into chaos or from internal revolutions. None of them disintegrated because their economy was failing. In that way, they were more successful than the Marxists. Indeed, in Spain, there were rapid improvements to both industrial and scientific output after the Anarcho-Communists took over. Whether or not such output would continue is a matter of debate, but the society did not last long enough for us to be able to tell for certain.

edited 29th Nov '12 2:54:24 AM by deathpigeon

Hmm, I'm the same as Pidgey minus the complete pacifism. I think a libertarian socialist group would be better than just a communist one though.

I hope you agree with me that even elements of free market are inevitable for efficient leftist state because of how damn inefficient is distribution of goods on national level. Planned economy was never viable option. As Adam Smith noted, baker bakes not because he is altruist, but because he wants to sell his products for a good price to feed himself and support his family. All government should to eliminate extreme differences in wealth.

...Anarcho-Communism is a type of Libertarian Socialism, so every Anarcho-Communist community is also a Libertarian Socialist community, just as every square is a rectangle.

edited 29th Nov '12 4:40:29 AM by deathpigeon

But A) This is a general communist group, not anarcho-communist (if not, rename it) and B) we don't really have much in common with Stalinists, while we have a lot in common with mutualists.

edited 29th Nov '12 4:39:40 AM by TenTailsBeast

I disagree. Free market is unnecessary, and, in a gift economy, which is the type of economy advocated by me and other Anarcho-Communists, the baker doesn't bake because of altruism, he or she bakes because he or she knows that the people who he or she is baking for are also doing stuff for him or her. Gift economies do, in fact, exist in the modern world, just in specific communities. For example, the open source community of programmers functions like a gift economy. Every programmer makes a program, then publishes the source code without compensation for anyone else to use. The programmer does not do so out of altruism, but because he or she knows that, through buying into this system, he or she will get access to more code and ideas than he or she would if everyone horded their code, keeping it to themselves.

While this is a general Communist group, and any Communist is allowed, I still hold Anarcho-Communist views, and, while we might not have much in common with the Stalinists, we do share the same general end goal with the Marxists, just with major differences as to how to get there, and minor differences as to how it is structured. We are still Communists, despite not being Marxists.

This works only in small scale communities that is. On national level, even if such type of economy worked within boundaries of that nation, said country would have to deal with other countries, who are likely to be predominantly free market economies. Not all resources are found within one state, so every country need to buy resources which she cannot produce and sell own products to afford them. On global scale, free market is an inevitable outcome.

Only option to truly test your ideas in practice is to attempt to enact them in future equivalent of the New World. Mars colony could be self-sufficient on its own. And such colony could be placed enough far from other ones in the initial stage of colonization that the others who are negatively inclined to your ideology in radical way wouldn't try to torch your colony down. In practice, the colony who would manage to get the shit done the best and expand enough efficiently to subjugate majority of the planet would be prove to be at least partially right about her leanings.

edited 29th Nov '12 5:03:29 AM by CaptainKatsura

Communist communities can trade stuff with the outside world without being free market. It would make things more difficult, but not impossible. Also, it is my hope, and the hope of most Communists, for the entire world to eventually be converted to Communism, as we see it as creating a better world for everyone.

Also, a New World sort of plan would be something I would support.

...Dear gods, I just imagined Anarcho-Communist moon bases. That would be awesome! XD

Not feasible if you couldn't establish efficient trade routes with Earth. Unlike Mars there is shortage of some elements vital to sustaining human presence there and some things must be imported. Moon may be conveniently near, but to establish community independent from Earth Mars is the most viable choice.

Right... Moon bases were just where my mind first went... >.> I blame Newt Gingrich.

When it comes to the world of gaming, the Free State of Ukraine is available as one of factions in a mod that features mainly Polish-Russian war of 1920, but events of Ukraine and Russian Civil War are depicted there too.

Ps. I like the fact that Polish insurectionists who staged successful uprising against Germans and seceded along with whole Greater Poland starts as independent faction because the mod starts before they officially joined Polish Commonwealth. Gives me a chance to keep my motherland separate from those damn Eastern Poles

What's this a mod for?

Aww, I forgot to add that it's a mod to Hearts of Iron 2.,

Victoria: Revolutions, a strategy game with complex political and economical elements, depicting events from 1836 to 1935, feature both Anarchists and Communists, though the former are radical offshoot of Liberals. If militant enough Liberals are likely to support Anarcho-Liberals and Socialists are likely to shift into Communists. Events such as Marx's Manifesto are likely to speed up the process.

edited 29th Nov '12 5:35:04 AM by CaptainKatsura

Cool! I'll need to check that game out, and look for that mod.

I'll need to check out that game, too. I'd probably shoot to be the Anarcho-Liberals or Communists, just like I shoot for being commies in Civ.

edited 29th Nov '12 5:37:19 AM by deathpigeon

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?188957-White-Eagle-Red-Star-mod

Mod's thread.

Awesome~ Thanks, dude! :)

Do you ever play Civ?

I used to play Civ 4 (without expansions) a lot, but not as much now as games from Paradox Games, such as Crusader Kings, Europa Universalis, Victoria and Hearts of Iron.

I usually tend to emulate Socialist (but not Communist) state with secular, if not atheistic leanings and free market economy with developed welfare policies and state sponsored industry.

I play Civ 4 with the Beyond the Sword expansion and the Rise of Mankind: A New Dawn mod. I tend to shoot for Communist, secular, though not atheistic, and pacifist. This is helped that, in the mod I use, having a Marxist society gives a big bonus to culture, and I always focus on culture.

I('m never pacifist. If other civilization has city located near resources I have access to, I leave them to their own decives, but if they are near something I want, nothing will save them from asskicking.