Patriotism and Political Discourse

You don't need royalty to rally around. I'm not a patriotic American. I'm a respectful and appreciative American. But it's like supporting the troops, not the government using them. If I have to, my loyalties go not with my country, but my morals and my cultural groups.

Oh, don't get me wrong. I consider myself quite lucky to be born here, and will brag about it at every chance I get.

It's just that, with the way our economy is completely dependant on imports and exports, we don't really get to do much that might put even the slightest dent in our foreign relations*

Except that one time we said 'nee' to the European Constitution. That was hilarious.

edited 1st Nov '12 3:56:07 PM by Kayeka

What ever happened to "If it ain't Dutch, It ain't much" ?

Excuse me? <practically dies of laughing> From the country that practically invented modern economics (the light and the dark sides, no less), despite what the City of London has to say on the topic...

No VoC, no globalisation. Import and export is what the Netherlands is damned good at, with cause: experience tells. It's no mean thing.

They realised that the rhyme only works in English, and thus is self-defeating by it's lack of Dutchness?

Als er geen Nederlandse ai, ai niet veel.

Does this rhyme?

Yes-no. It lacks... scan, so the weight throws the rhyme.

That very much doesn't rhyme. Also, I think it's Afrikaans, not Dutch (though I suppose the difference isn't that great).

But really, I repeat, I am very proud of my nation. We have a grand history of societal and economic progress, and produced some very influential artists, scientists and admirals.

It's not even all ancient history. These days we got a very good education system (that people keep bitching about, but it's still leagues ahead of what I hear about in other developed nations), excellent water engineering, a Technology University that won the World Solar Challenge four times in a row, and placed second the twice afterwards, beating out many more well-funded teams (I believe the vehicle used by an American team cost 4 times as much to build, yet still lost to our team), and we all generally have such an easy and peaceful life that a few pesky kids in a certain neighbourhood in a certain city is considered a national problem.

But the thing is, we lack sheer size to cash in on all those achievements to gain power on the global stage. We have good education, but very few one-out-of-every-thousand geniuses to win the Nobel Prize. We have well-oiled economy, but not enough people to generate the funds to rival our neighbours. We have a modern military, but not enough people willing to serve and fund it.

That's the joke I was trying to make. Imagine what madness would result from every other nation deciding they wanted their own 'exceptionalism'. The USA and UK get to pull that kind of thing, and Germany and Japan can often negotiate some special treatment here and there, but if everyone were to play that game, there'd be some that would lose really big.

Now the question is just how fair it is for these larger nations to bully the rest for special treatment.

By the way, wasn't there a bill George Bush once signed, that basically stated the USA was authorized to invade the Netherlands in order to extract American citizens being tried for war crimes in The Hague? I was pretty young back then, but I vaguely recall some bitching about it. That sure didn't win the USA any brownie points over here, but what were we supposed to do about it? Refuse to sell our Gouda cheese?

Um... no: not Afrikaans. Trust me on this.

Want, Arikaans is 'n taal wat ek verstaan kan. In Afrikaans is daar net "Duits" as 'n woord en geen "Nederlands" vir die taal in daardie woordeskat. Maar, Vlaams is daar... Vra my nie, nè?

edited 3rd Nov '12 2:24:03 AM by Euodiachloris

Then it's probably a fuck-up by google translate. An accurate translation would be "Als het niet Nederlands is, is het niet veel."

Which also doesn't rhyme, and isn't very catchy either.

Google translate sometimes works for me with Dutch... I just play with the grammar, mostly. Chatting to some from the Netherlands can be embarrassing, though: Afrikaans isn't exactly burdened with grammar... and some of the words that are innocent have... acquired other meanings there, over time, shall we say. Rather embarrassing ones, sometimes. <winces>

I still don't know why one guy I actually talked to at a party practically collapsed under a table with the giggles. He refused to tell me which part of the vocabulary had... made him turn beetroot and slide sideways. <.< Most unfair.

Can't help with making it rhyme... sorry.

edited 2nd Nov '12 2:15:26 AM by Euodiachloris

The Nordic countries would like to remind you of their existence. Except if you meant to say "some other developed countries," in which case: supreme Welfare State high five!

Of course I meant "some". Nordic countries are kicking our arses in plenty of areas. Welfare High Five!

Except that Finland place. I hear it's all backwards and full of weirdos who are inferior to the Greek.

edited 2nd Nov '12 4:56:37 AM by deathpigeon

The idea that someone needs to pick their career by middle or highschool was very backwards when the US education system first started and is now becoming very backwards again.

All we need is a society that doesn't hate intellectualism, teachers, schools, learning, the poor, children, etc.

edited 2nd Nov '12 6:58:01 AM by ohsointocats

(Also, people forget that the Dutch invented the nation-state. THEY INVENTED THE NATION-STATE, FOLKS.)

-disappointed face of disappoint-

Anyway, I concur with the OP. Not to say that domestic-centrism is a solely US thing - we Brits have it too, but I am sure that the sort of American-style thing of flag-waving blah blah wouldn't work here. Even fixing the Union flag onto your car is frowned upon.

Now, is it an issue? Maybe.

I though it was the Portuguese who invented the nation state.

Well, theoretically, it was a mixture of the French, Dutch, HRE, Spanish, and Swedes. The Treaty of Westphalia is the basis for the concept of the modern nation-state.

Um... *cough* The United Kingdom: being stubbornly weirder for longer.

Except for the Borders and the Marches, concepts of Them and Us for each nation (and rights pertaining to Them and Us) within the Isles were... kicking around before that (if not, exactly encoded anywhere clearly in the face of takeovers and the like, even though various documents always floated about on all sides).

edited 3rd Nov '12 7:38:55 AM by Euodiachloris