High Security Schools

...according to that wikipedia article, the schools is doing very well in spite of concerted action over a number of years by the British government to shut it down, so it seems the 'no/few rules' approach has some merit.

@Steven: Maybe it depends on where you live, but I went to work one day with my aunt at a school in the Bronx and there was so much security. There was a metal detector, plus you had to put your bag through an x-ray machine, then we had to have an escort take us to the office instead of just walking. It was a lot more than I'm used to in Georgia.

I have heard of such a thing in some of the schools around me but hearing about it again now, makes me wonder how much time is wasted going through all these checks when they could have gotten the kids in the school faster and not miss out on class time (not that the kids probably care, but still).

Sounds like more like airport security now.

Let's see... back in high school, we had two armed deputies and a few security cameras located all around campus, and I think that was about it. Oh, and in front of the vending machines, there was one of those mall-store grates to lock 'em up at night. There was really no need for a lot of security, because nothing ever really happened.

Middle school we had, I think one deputy and that was it. Maybe some cameras? There were also iron gates on either side of the vending machines, but I think those were more to keep us from going out to the football field or off-campus during lunch and before class than actual security measures.

My old school, which my Mom works at, didn't really have a lot of security measures. Although now if you go to visit during school hours, you have to buzz yourself in and say why you're there. Didn't have to do that while I was attending.

And we've always had fences. That you could get through pretty easy. Hell, I think anyone in the local neighborhood to get onto the running track if they wanted to use it. *shrug* It's not like the area is known for a lot of gang violence, so I don't think they care much about ramping up security when that would most likely waste money.

The last two years I was there, they installed a bigass cast iron fence, had armed officers patrolling, and you had to have a visitor ID to enter grounds during hours (alumni would pop in to classes to schmooze with their old teachers near the end of the semester because college got off a week earlier).

Note that the shooting we had happened a few years after all of this went in, and its circumstances had absolutely nothing to do with what it might've prevented.

The security measures at my school (gymnasium) consist of not handing out the keys for the music rooms to students, because we might steal the piano... on the third floor (I'm not even kidding, that is the official explanation). Not much security besides that during the day: We have an iron fence, but its only half a meter high, only surrounds the older part of the compound and the gate has been removed a long time ago. Everybody can walk in or out if he wants to and naturally a lot of people do so because it's faster than going all the way around the building, if you need to get to the other side.

As far as I'm aware not even all the doors are locked at night, only the main entrances and they turn on a motion detector alarm.

Am I right in assuming that all the posters whose schools had crazy levels of security theatre are from America?

On the topic of Security and Schools, has anyone ever heard of Students for Concealed Carry?

Does anyone else think this is a horrible idea?

Honestly I don't think it'd make that much of a difference in practice. The kids who are going to shoot someone like the guy that did at my school are going to just conceal and bring it in anyway. All the shitfits that get thrown about guns around here before anything happens are random students who forgot to take their hunting rifle out of their trunk the Monday after their weekend trip.

There is something to be said for crimes of passion, though, especially in light of the completely impotent attitudes on bullying. You really are going to get more frequent volatile situations in a school than "in the real world". In place of it, I'd be okay with the armed guards and the teachers having nonlethal weapons stashed away rather than concealed carry.

Then again, the armed guards we had were local dudes that had been volunteering for functions at the schools for years and years, so I'll admit I trust them a lot more than I would random rent-a-cops. If we had the thugs that patrolled my later college campus instead of friendly Steve my view on the matter would be a lot less favorable.

Ultimately I think this is just indicative of drug problems and being useless about bullying though. We wouldn't have the issues that make it look like we need a third of this security if we were responsible about the other shit. That, and widespread coverage of our few school incidents kind of obscures the fact that they've steadily been becoming less frequent anyway even before people go crazy with security.

edited 2nd Sep '12 4:30:01 PM by Pykrete

re: Students for Concealed Carry— Looks like it's specifically about college campuses, so I'm somewhat OK with it, considering any students who want to bring their guns onto my campus could do it... pretty easily anyway. They only do like one room check per semester, which they tell you about a week in advance, and legally, the RA can't open any drawers, trunks, or closets that aren't already. Considering how much alcohol I know for fact was on that so-called "dry" campus, I suspect there are at least a few guns there as well.

I'm not sure how much it would actually help, but that's another debate for another thread.

I think the argument for their position is fucking stupid. For one, it does nothing to prevent danger from the crazies they supposedly guard against. For two, it does nothing to make you, personally, mature enough to be able to defend yourself adequately and not cause such a situation to escalate to even more tragic levels. Having a gun does not make you a superhero or trained cop.

-scrolls through previous pages-

Correct. You gain 20 kudos!

And I gain 10 kudos for scrolling through the previous pages.

@post 47, I went to Summerhill for 6 years so if anyone is interested in the place feel free to drop me a PM.

I'm from Eagleland and my school never really had much security. My school was in a rural district where crime was rather low.

We had cameras, but no fence (My school was out by a cornfield which is horribly stereotypical for my state/region). About twice a year a cop would have a drug dog sniff at people's lockers. Visitors had to check in at the front desk and the only way in during operation hours was through the office, but there was no metal detector or armed officer or any bag check. The check in was half security and half for catching late students.

The city that I moved to for University has fences around the elementary schools.

The schools in Brazil are generally fenced in as well from what I've seen in the month or so that I've been here.

edited 3rd Sep '12 4:54:12 PM by SilverStar

The security my high school put in only happened by the time I was halfway through it. I'm pretty sure it was in response to a local drug boom rather than shootings, really.

I don't think any school I went to had security cameras, let alone guards or visitor cards. Our fences were always less than a metre tall, with plenty of gates we could wander out of. I could sit by the gate, wave to a teacher and walk out during school hours without them saying anything (they just assumed I had free periods until the end of the day, or would return later). Discipline was basically non-existent, if not to Summerhill levels, and no one got into serious trouble.

I’m going to quickly correct some of the misunderstandings about Summerhill, then if anyone has any further questions feel free to PM me, as a wider derail is a no no.

Summerhill is not and has never been “no rules” school. This along with the idea that discipline is none existent is a misunderstanding that has come about due to the fact that rules are not created or enforced from ‘on high’ but instead voted on and enforced by the community as a whole. Rules exist for all sorts of things, some basic examples would be the bedtime rules, the no gaming during certain times rule, the no standing on the dining room tables rule, the no disturbing exams rule (with an attached standard fine that is normally used if a person breaks the rule), and so many more. Likewise enforcement and ‘discipline’ are done by the community as one, not by ‘figures of authority’. If you break a rule then you are normally “bought up” at the school meeting and a punishment or “fine” is voted upon by the community at large.

Now as the subject is about security I might as well mention the security arrangements at Summerhill. A as everyone lives there (with the exception of a few day kids) it operates differently from a normal school anyway, in my time (I think it’s changed a bit since I left 2 years ago) you couldn’t go into town on weekdays until after 12, you could only go into town alone if you were over a certain age (I believe 13), if you were going to be gone for over 3 hours or going beyond the immediate town area then you had to inform your houseparent, if you wanted to go somewhere like Ipswich then you normally had to propose it, you had to always put your peg on out (your peg is a wooden tag with you name on it that is placed on a board and can be “in” “out” or “far out”, and you weren’t allowed into town alone (or at all) after certain times (I think around 5:30 in the winter was when the no downtown alone rule kicked in, but this rule was a new one added after a bit of a panic where a local at the chip shop had a gun (for US troopers, remember that handguns are illegal in the UK and not even our police regularly carry). But as for physical security measures, nothing really. No wall or fence (not continuous around the entire grounds anyway) and the only gate was just to keep vehicles out, we had the odd bit of trouble with kids from town coming in and stealing bikes or causing trouble but that was always a rare occurrence. On party nights a member of staff would be put on patrol after it started to get late.

My college (UK college not US college) had a different system. For my campus the place was just open but each student had an ID card that we were meant to display at all times (but people never did). A couple of security guards wondered around and at the start of the year would ask people to show their college I Ds. At the other campus (and once the redevelopment in finished at my campus) they have electronic barriers that you have to scan your ID to get though, otherwise you can’t access anything beyond reception. I think the classrooms have cameras in them but I don’t think most of them were ever actually on (if they were anything but prop cameras).

A note for the mods, I got Best Of to okay me including the paragraph about misconceptions about Summerhill, so please don’t thump me.

edited 4th Sep '12 6:50:08 AM by Silasw

My own school was run on a fairly lackadaisical pattern (not quite Summerhill, but Steller was definitely founded on letting kids be responsible for their own education), and part of that included lax security. Students (even 7th-graders) were allowed on and off campus freely, there were no walls or guards, and the closest thing we had to security guards were the P.E. teacher and the janitor. Who were, admittedly, pretty good security for the problems we had. We had occasional thefts (especially since our lockers weren't locked) and once had the school placed on lockdown because there was a shooter a few blocks away, but no serious problems from our lack of security. I was the most violent student there by a long shot, and the degree to which I was inclined to solve my problems with my fists (which nearly got me expelled once) would probably have been seen as rather tame at some other schools.