Sexism and Men's Issues

Teachers in particular however aren’t male role models, as very few of them are men. Largely due traditional ideas around male care givers, poor pay and the social expectation that a man will be the primary earner in a household.

In separate male focused news, the British king has said that the reason he’s gone public with his (not prostate but discovered during a prostate check) cancer diagnose is to encourage men in the country to get their prostate checked, as men not taking their health seriously is a major issue win the U.K.

Edited by Silasw on Feb 5th 2024 at 8:49:01 PM

I should note that I was responding to a person who was seemingly assuming that I only spoke of fictional role models in the "why people care about role models" post. Otherwise, yes school is not a good source of male role models because they are few male teachers.

Edited by Risa123 on Feb 5th 2024 at 9:56:23 PM

Hey Zendervai. No I am NOT saying Mr Fred Rogers and Bob Ross were awful at all! I was asking Sky Cat why THEY thought they werent good role models. I love them both to death. Fred Rogers is my hero and changed Television in ways we cant even begin to grasp. He's the reason we can record TV Shows legally for one.

Sky Cat was the one who said:

• Fred Rogers and Bob Ross were supposed to have been good role models for many men at the times they were alive. At the very least, they are better role models than the likes of Andrew Tate, Harvey Weinstein, and R. Kelly. An important thing to keep in mind about role models is that they are still human, and that you should try and learn from even their mistakes/poor choices. Say what you want about the Tanakh, I think it still conveys this message pretty well by having even the most admirable people make critically poor decisions which cost them. It's a shame that certain other guys don't choose to learn from the negative choices of other people.

I just asked why the shade thrown at them.

Edited by AegisP on Feb 5th 2024 at 1:11:27 AM

I think Skycat might have messed up in the phrasing there.

Using those specific people as the examples of "at least they're better than" puts the bar so low that it's effectively underground.

Fred Rogers is freaking awesome and so is Bob Ross. I love him. I just meant that humans are flawed and you are not going to ever get a perfect human being and Sky Cat throwing that shade at him was unwarranted.

Edited by AegisP on Feb 5th 2024 at 1:13:29 AM

It's worth noting that being that kind of stereotypical "role model" is pretty exhausting to the people who take on that role. Tom Baker, the Fourth Doctor, had his mental health problems seriously aggravated because of the toll of trying to appeal "perfect" in public at all times while he played The Doctor because he was so conscientious of being that kind of role model.

Edited by PhiSat on Feb 5th 2024 at 2:21:15 AM

Granted, fred rogers is seen as role model for children and as general being good person, probably being one of the few who have a preformative nice role that its actually baked on being nice.

"ou get a lot of celebrities and you get a lot of characters, including love interests and side characters."

Really? most of the time there is a tendency to see winner or celebrities as role model as general thing, I have hardly see women actually chosing love interest for example.

@unknowing. That's not true. There are MANY people who work with kids who are GENUINELY awful. Jimmy Savile and Dan Schneider anyone?

I know its unfair because unknowing is Latin American and may not know who Jimmy Savile is.

I feel like you accidentally got the complete opposite meaning that unknowing intended from that post.

I know. I realized once I reread it.

If anyone else misread: What I mean is that Fred rogers is that is one of those guys who have a nice stage persona and...also nice backstage persona, which is kinda very hard to do, Like everything I have read about him talk about a very comited person who actually take his role to teach people seriously.

If anything I think people asume he most have a bad side because no only he act nice outside and backside of the stage, he very much make look easy in a way that it downright surprising.

Heck, there was an urban legend that Rogers had been a sniper in the armed forces. I don't know if its still circulating around, but I distinctly remember it from my youth.

Bob Ross, funnily enough, did serve. His experiences as a drill sergeant was a big factor in his soft-spoken persona.

I would expect the opposite. I have often heard people talk about male teachers as an example.

Celebrities are another example which seems common (although frankly, I am skeptical about celebrities, generally speaking). Maybe part of this is coming from a country with a big sports culture where athletes are often referred to as 'role models'.

Fictional characters would be examples I hear about the least.

I expect examples vary a lot by values and culture.

Footballers get bought up in the U.K. as potential role models reasonably often, but then they go and do things like say we should provide free school meals and the press shut that down fast.

The press will always look down on having the footballers being nice people because, you know, this is not the kind of press they want.

There are few cases where the rest of the organization involved find out about it and reward their actions, as happen in the NFL and the Walter Payton Man of the Year Award (based on the fact that Walter Payton redirected a lot of his money to help people in charity campaigns during his career and prior to his premature death).

But the press seems to be more interested to see how bad X or Y player is spending the money, as happens with George Best or other players, to see who is the one who dares to waste his career by his own means.

Surely is more easy to learn the names of athletes that ended in jail or dying tragically for their vices than the name of athletes recognized for their charity campaigns.

Of course, media being out to piss you off is another problem.

I think issue is role model is one of those term everyone brand but is funny to define it.

Most of the time is "people want to be and are inspired" sometimes that term is fused with mused or just someone that inspired you in your art.

Sometimes are people who said "what would X do in this situation"

Sometimes is "people who tech something"

And plenty of time in fictional discourse is "literatly me" sort of thing.

Like in fictional terms I admit my was gohan from Dragon ball z because his story was very inspiring for me, being a weak, meek by who become stronger and show what he can do and yet never lose that nerdy actituded? yeah, that conect to me.

I do hold Rogers and Ross in much higher regard than a lot of other celebrities.

All I was saying was that if there were stories of their mistakes, you could even learn from them as well.

Edited by SkyCat32 on Feb 8th 2024 at 9:25:29 AM

Which is fair, it's just a quirk of how English works that if you say "at least x thing is better than y", that means that "y" is where the standard is.

It's like, if you have a really good meal and you're like "at least it was better than eating an old boot". Yes, that's true, but it means the quality range from that comparison so broad most people will assume you were actually saying it sucked and were trying to come up with literally anything good to say about it and had to resort to "it is better than something that isn't edible."

Thanks for explaining. I felt like I was on a cliffhanger there. And I agree.

RE: Male role models

Funnily enough, some of my current male role models include historical figures, specifically military officers like Dwight D. Eisenhower and Chester W. Nimitz.

As for those two I mentioned, I admire them - flawed as they were - not just because of them being extremely successfully officers, but also their diplomatic abilities and humility.

Also, Nimitz was a very devoted husband and father, who had long lasting and loving marriage till his death...which apparently made him a really special case among US generals and officers during early and mid 20th century. XP

In another topic, ABC7 Chicago - the infamous "Red pill" content creator and "alleged" sexual trafficker Andrew Tate is arrested again.

The most hilarious part about this, which isn't included in the linked article, is the fact that one of Tate's most devout and unhinged followers, Adin Ross accidentally leaked Tate brothers' plan to escape Romania in one of his livestreams.

Oh man. I really hope the Incel King stay in the cell longer this time around (they were previously on house arrest).

Edited by dRoy on Mar 17th 2024 at 10:06:10 PM

Andrew Twerp is a threat to male autonomy as well.

Hear me out.

Didn't he discourage men from learning survival skills such as culinary practice so that they'd waste money on him?

Edited by SkyCat32 on Mar 18th 2024 at 11:48:54 AM

Which is absolutely ridiculous, really. As you already said, yeah, it's a really important skill for men (and any gender, really) if they want to achieve self-reliance.

And seriously, even in terms of strict masculine sense, grilling meat or cooking outdoor ARE considered very much "manly" activities.

Then again, one shouldn't expect too much from someone who "doesn't read books because his brain is too fast." Yes, he actually said that, and as someone who is suffering from adult ADHD, maybe he should check for it.

I think there actually is/was a men's rights movement in Italy that wanted men to be able to learn how to cook and clean for themselves without being ridiculed for doing "women's work".

The thing that is overlooked with role models, is that it depends on the specific role, as well as what behavior is visible. Kids who want to be Michael Jordan, wanted to be star basketball players. They were probably mostly unaware of his flaws, and he actually came across as humble and promoting hard work.

Still, a lot of the roles that kids need modeled are every day stuff. Social interactions etc. Private life things.