Regional Religious Bias

I am going to ask all of you politely not to start that derail again.

@Snowman: Did you ever get the stuff where they claim that Catholics aren't really Christian, or was that more of a fringe thing?

I'm curious how widespread that is, because my family's churches all believe that, but I also ran into someone up here a bit ago that got in my (Catholic)friend's face on the bus because we were discussing politics and the Pope came up.

That U.S. map is fascinating. Though I don't know if they took into account the many rural churches that use "Baptist" in their name, but aren't actually part of the Southern Baptist Convention.

In addition, the map doesn't make it clear how few of these areas represent an actual majority. In most of these areas, the color represents a mere plurality, and in majority-Protestant areas with no single dominant denomination the map defaults to Catholic, giving a totally false impression.

edited 7th Jun '12 1:49:03 PM by Jhimmibhob

That's an issue where the confusion can come from several sources. Very few Protestants, regardless of region, deny that Catholics are even Christian. Of those, they tend to fall into two groups:

• Independent fundamentalist churches who naively think that avoiding hermeneutics is even possible (and are usually KJV-only types).
• Reformed groups with strong historical ties to the original Reformation belligerents, and who are polemically stuck in the 16th century.

On the other hand, I've met a large number of ill-taught, lapsed, or cultural Catholics who themselves don't seem to understand that Catholicism is a kind of Christianity, and who appear to know less about central Christian doctrines than the average Shinto. Understandably, anyone encountering them could get the mistaken impression that Catholicism has zilch to do with Christianity.

To be perfectly honest, the main reason purpose for this thread has been fulfilled. I kinda figured that I was getting a skewed picture of Christianity, but damn is it a concentrated one down here.

Now I've gotten input from plenty of people who said, "No, that's just crazy talk. Christianity is generally not like that." And I appreciate it.

@Jhimmi: I'm specifically talking about the belief across various Protestant sects that Catholicism is completely incompatible with the Bible, and therefore cannot possibly be "real" Christians. To clarify, I have family in a variety of sects ranging from Methodist, to Baptist, to Presbyterian, to Pentecostal, to non-denominational evangelical/charismatic.

All of them agree that Catholics cannot possibly be Christian, and they usually point to the saints and go, "See, they worship false idols." or they point to the concept of papal infallibility and go "God speaks to all of us, why are they listening to that false prophet?" and so on.

edited 7th Jun '12 2:00:59 PM by DrunkGirlfriend

@Drunk Girlfriend,

Do you mean people like Jack Chick who think that Catholicism is some kind of Babylonian pagan shill for Satan with Islam as its puppet, or less crazy?

Depends? I've seen people that took that Chick tract seriously, but most of them aren't quite that bad.

Well, I can at least say I've never met any Babylonian pagans in my church congregation. I imagine, though, that if Karalora and her fellow pagans from the Covens section are anything to go by, that they'd be perfectly nice people. Maybe my congregation just isn't in on the plot, though?

One can dream. "Babylonian pagan shill for Satan with Islam as its puppet" actually sounds rather interesting, if Dan Brown-ish.

That's a shame. I haven't encountered as much of that—maybe it's just because I avoid discussing religion & politics in casual company, or maybe there are local variations.

edited 7th Jun '12 2:24:49 PM by Jhimmibhob

The Catholic Church is the largest single denomination, sure. Protestant denominations are usually very decentralized, with local congregations enjoying a great deal of autonomy. There's no Methodist Pope, for example.

And even if you identify as part of a group, such as "Baptist" or "Lutheran", that doesn't mean much in itself, because there are different associations of particular types of congregations. Not all Baptists are members of the Southern Baptist Convention. Not all Lutheran churches are members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church of America.

I also wonder if anybody tried to join the Catholic Church after reading one of Chick's tracts because they wanted access to demonic powers and ruling-the-world that Chick talked about. I doubt it.

edited 7th Jun '12 2:56:15 PM by Lawyerdude

I dunno, but I remember being very disappointed when I started playing tabletop RP Gs.

Is that still a common perception among certain Christians, that playing D&D or fantasy RP Gs is somehow demonic? I remember hearing a Focus On The Family broadcast specifically about that some time ago. If one is the type of person who believes that spirits and demons are everywhere, then I can imagine that something like that wouldn't seem too far off.

Yeah: after the fire-and-brimstone lectures I got given at school, actually playing Eye Of The Beholder was not quite what had been advertised about the RPG experience by teachers.

Nope: not a single summoned demon sending me to hell. Strange, that.

Well, that and the whole "if you role-play as an Evil character, you can only descend into darkness yourself, and that way lies damnation!" or "you can rape people as a choice! This is BAD! It corrupts the moral fibre!". Etc, etc, blah-di-blah fish-paste.

The concept that fantasy RP actually can help you realise why something is a Bad Idea in RL? Totally not an idea my teachers would understand.

edited 7th Jun '12 3:09:52 PM by Euodiachloris

@Lawyerdude; If we were unable to determine what Christianity is through our own decisions, there wouldn't be other churches to join. Joining a different church does not happen if someone does not decide that they don't like a particular interpretation and go off and form their own. Your statements here seem contradictory.

As regards roleplaying games, I think that's largely been disproven and disregarded because I haven't seen anyone trumpeting about it. Wouldn't doubt fringe elements still believing if, but I believe most have moved their ire towards Grand Theft Auto and the like. To which my response is; well then, make your own damned video games that profess Christian values. If you make it fun enough, people might play and learn something in the process.

Not remotely true. One of the reasons the recent Vatican leak was so embarrassing is that it shows he can't even keep the cardinals right below him in line with each other. To say nothing of occasionally overwhelming dissent on some matteres (in some cases over 90% opposition to the official stance). And the pope can't even exercise "what I say is dogma" on much more than abstract philosophical matters.

@Lawyerdude: Yeah, my parents believed that it was a thinly veiled indoctrination into Wicca.

Heck, no: my teachers were very clear. D&D was invented by Satanists to bring sacrifices to the alters! To be honest, I don't think they'd ever heard of Wicca. I think the closest to Wicca they could think was the word "hippie". That or "ignorant, quaint Traditional beliefs in demons we should educate the ignorant, deluded, stupid black out of".

Seriously: I got fed these attitudes on a daily basis. Usually around Bible Study.

edited 7th Jun '12 3:22:43 PM by Euodiachloris

Ah, see, on my end I got that Satanism and Wicca were the same thing, and by playing D&D or "dabbling in the occult" (reading about it, playing with tarot cards, playing with ouji boards, etc) you were opening the door to let Satan come into your life and possess you.

On an odd note, my mom totally believes Ouija boards really have power. But that's because she once played a game with her friends way back when, and has told me never to fuck with those things. She's not exactly a fundie of any sort(hasn't been to church in years, and is very supportive of her very gay brother and his now husband and partner of several years), so I've never been quite sure what to think of that. Also, what Satanism actually is is a lot stranger than the TV version of it.

@Jhimmibhob: On the map, a black dot represents a county where the dominant denomination consists of a majority of the population in that county.

I thought I had heard it all, but the fact that there are still Protestants who think Catholics aren't Christian is a new one on me. If Catholics cant possibly be Christian, what are the Orthodox?

But basically it all comes down to "We are the good guys, and if you aren't one of us, you're one of the bad ones, and they're all the same." Tiring.

I had been taught that Orthodox was just a different type of Catholicism. Like there was the Roman Catholic, and then Orthodox Catholic.

I know a Catholic man like that. He originally left the faith due to hating his strict family and the abuse he suffered at their hands to become a witch. After some time something happened that freaked him out very badly and he spent some time thinking on his own before converting back to Catholicism. He's since been highly wary of things that involve messing with non-human sapient entities that aren't God. Especially if it involves communication with them.

As for roleplaying games being evil or at least a bad influence...I myself have a few family members who have this view for religious reasons. They're the sorts who won't let their kids see Harry Potter films and such as well. Very nice people, but a bit odd. The rest of the family jokes about this though we don't hate them by any means. We just think they're a bit strange and hold beliefs that are kind of silly.

Now on the subject of "Catholics aren't Christian" this seems to be common enough around me. Typically in the form of the statement "I'm not Catholic, I'm Christian". I find this all rather silly since that's like saying "I'm not Theravada, I'm Buddhist". Those I see expressing this view tend to be 1, rather young and in their teens or 2, not fond of Catholicism.

Vericrat: You're welcome though I wish I could have provided more specific information regarding Christianity itself.

edited 7th Jun '12 3:46:34 PM by Aondeug

IIRC, Gary Gygax (The guy who created D&D) was a Christian. (Not that I think it would matter to those types. They'd probably just say he was a fake.)

That or hideously misguided.