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Big Bang Age
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Big Bang Age:

I don't want to accuse you of doing no research.

As I understand the definition of porn, it is a work that is primarily devised to serve as titillation or outright sexual gratification. Under the definition I think you are using, any sexual content is a sign that the work in question is pornography. However, visual novels are written and marketed with a different emphasis. Frequently, in order to get the games to sell, the writers include sex scenes that are not the focus of the work in an attempt to appeal to a slightly broader audience. The audience will think "Even if the story turns out to be terrible, I can ignore the story and still have this stuff left over. Thus, my money will not have gone to waste as much as it would have otherwise."

This is the logic for why Fate/stay night has five or sex sex scenes and yet you can cut them out of the plot and not even notice with only minimal alteration, as evidenced by the anime. This is a similar situation: There are sex scenes, but they are not the focus of the work and with minimal effort you could remove most or all of them without noticing the difference. The game is just that: A game. You have units and they around conquering the country and in the end you fight some ghost or demon. It's not entirely clear what it is, really.

Thus, by the way I view pornography, works like this do not qualify.

Edit: That character is named Kunagi. She's supposed to look older but due to a curse she's been deaged a little. So yes, in story she does look maybe thirteen or fourteen or so to everyone, though she doesn't act it.

edited 26th Apr '12 6:27:11 PM by Arha

 27 Raidouthe21st, Thu, 26th Apr '12 6:23:48 PM from Absolutely whacking your friends Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
U Jelly?
Wait, "unfair"? How is it unfair to keep those other unmentioned works?

edited 26th Apr '12 6:24:28 PM by Raidouthe21st

"A haiku for the man: Man with sunglasses, has them on all night and day, watch out where you go."
 28 Martello, Thu, 26th Apr '12 6:27:24 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
@encrypted - Plot with Porn doesn't actually mean anything right now. We're switching that title with the redirect, Porn with Plot, because they're too easy to confuse and the former isn't a preexisting term while the latter is. There's a thread in TRS about it.

When we were using Plot with Porn before, we meant stuff like Game of Thrones where the porn is both softcore and not a core part of the work. It appears that Big Bang Age isn't like that. Can anyone link me to videos of actual gameplay? Preferably videos where the sex part is included.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Never mind. I assumed incorrectly.

edited 26th Apr '12 6:31:07 PM by Arha

[up][up] There's a youtube let's play, but since it's on youtube, there aren't any sex scenes.

edited 26th Apr '12 6:28:52 PM by encrypted12345

Gunpla is amazing!
Well thats a absolutely terrible redirect then.

So I guess Katawa Shoujo is now Porn with Plot (Despite it being removable)

Or The Matrix.

ANYTHING with adult content is now Porn.

Got it.

edited 26th Apr '12 6:29:28 PM by Thorn14

 32 Raidouthe21st, Thu, 26th Apr '12 6:30:08 PM from Absolutely whacking your friends Relationship Status: Anime is my true love
U Jelly?
For gameplay, Here's one. And another.

edited 26th Apr '12 6:30:32 PM by Raidouthe21st

"A haiku for the man: Man with sunglasses, has them on all night and day, watch out where you go."
 33 Martello, Thu, 26th Apr '12 6:32:52 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
@Thorn - Stop freaking out. The Matrix doesn't have explicit depictions of intercourse. Do you remember when I said explicit depictions of intercourse in several posts on this subject? You're throwing around strawmen again.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Gunpla is amazing!
Then what about 300? Its pretty obvious what is going on in that one scene.

Also thats not strawmanning.

Strawmanning is me attacking you as a person to prove a point.

edited 26th Apr '12 6:34:07 PM by Thorn14

[up] No, no, strawmanning is making an absurd position that is so extreme that no one can disagree because it wasn't what they were talking about. You're thinking of Ad Hominem.

The Katawa Shoujo point was logical though. -_-

edited 26th Apr '12 6:35:58 PM by encrypted12345

 36 lu 127, Thu, 26th Apr '12 6:35:45 PM from the Capital of Light Relationship Status: Loves me...loves me not
With Mod Hat On
Thorn, you are making arguments out of thin air and bringing up works to draw a comparison, debating general policy and derailing this thread. You will stop now. This is about Big Bang Age, and none of you are allowed to snark at Martello or anyone else for unrelated material.

Am I clear?
迷子の足音消えた
代わりに祈りの唄
 37 Martello, Thu, 26th Apr '12 6:36:43 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
@Thorn - No, that's not what strawmanning means. A strawman is an extreme position created by one side in an argument to put in the mouth of the other side, even though the other person said no such thing. See here and bottom of the page here. What you defined as a strawman is an ad hominem.

Ninja'd by lu. Anyway, hopefully the "strawman vs ad hominem" point is cleared up now.

edited 26th Apr '12 6:37:47 PM by Martello

"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
Gunpla is amazing!
Alright. Sorry.

Continue on.

The second of those two videos mentioned by Raidou does a really good job of explaining the game, Martello. I suggest you check it out.

 40 Martello, Thu, 26th Apr '12 6:51:41 PM from Black River, NY
Hammer of the Pervs
I watched it. I'm going to bed now, but I'll come back to this thread sometime tomorrow when I get the chance. By then I'll have made a decision.
"Did anybody invent this stuff on purpose?" - Phillip Marlowe on tequila, Finger Man by Raymond Chandler.
 41 deathpigeon, Thu, 26th Apr '12 7:02:30 PM from Bread, It Is Bread that the Revolution Needs! Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Kaspar the Friendly Spook
@Martello: According to the standards spelled out in this post, we aren't looking to cut works with explicit depictions of intercourse, we are looking for:

  • Pure porn, or porn with an excuse plot only.
  • Anything that has explicit underage sex
  • Implied sex of preteens or younger
  • Fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles (lolicon and shotacon count)

So, to determine if something is even possible to be unacceptable, we need to answer yes to all of the following questions:
  1. Is it pure porn or porn with an excuse plot only?
  2. Does it have explicit underage sex?
  3. Is there implied sex of preteens or younger?
  4. Is their fanservice intended to cater to pedophiles?

Applying this to Big Bang Age, we get:
  1. Judging from this post and this post, I'm going to have to answer no.
  2. Based off of this post, and this post, I'm going to have to answer yes.
  3. Given that there is explicit underage sex, I feel as if this answering this is unnecessary.
  4. One would assume that, given the past two, this has to be yes, but that isn't always the case. Going off of this post, I'm leaning toward no, but not much was said that gives an answer to this question, so I'm going to have to answer maybe, but probably no.

So, on review, while this is questionable, and should be reviewed, it isn't because it's "porn", and arguing that it should be cut because it's "porn" is counterproductive to that side.

The problem this has is that it has sex involving people who are underage, so it should be reviewed, and it is quite possible that it should get cut, but, given that it does not appear to be pedopandering, from what I've read in this thread, we shouldn't jump the gun on that, and take a good look at it.
My Blog.

ACAB.

"The great are great only because we are on our knees. Let us rise." - Max Stirner
How old is the girl exactly? 13 or 14 or older?

The girl from that image? I think she's the same age as the protagonist so about seventeen or so. In her normal form which you catch glimpses of occasionally she looks older. Under that curse, she looks quite a bit younger. Gets mistaken for her (non existent) younger sister on occasion by people who know her by her normal form.

 44 deathpigeon, Thu, 26th Apr '12 7:35:16 PM from Bread, It Is Bread that the Revolution Needs! Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Kaspar the Friendly Spook
What about the people mentioned in this post, Shion, Cleo Aripa, and Kinako?

edited 26th Apr '12 7:35:29 PM by deathpigeon

My Blog.

ACAB.

"The great are great only because we are on our knees. Let us rise." - Max Stirner
Shion and Kinako look really young, possibly younger than Kunagi. Cleo doesn't enter into it, she has no sex scenes.

I'm really not sure if the game breaks the pedophile thing or not. It has sex scenes with characters that look quite young, but they're so unimportant that they don't even have to occur. Not once.

edited 26th Apr '12 7:38:04 PM by Arha

 46 deathpigeon, Thu, 26th Apr '12 7:42:17 PM from Bread, It Is Bread that the Revolution Needs! Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Kaspar the Friendly Spook
The rule is that anything that has explicit underage sex has to be looked at. This means, in my opinion, that it needs to be looked at no matter how small a part of the work the underage sex is, the work should be looked at. This doesn't mean, again in my opinion, that it should be automatically cut if it has those scenes. That is up to the P5.

edited 26th Apr '12 7:42:28 PM by deathpigeon

My Blog.

ACAB.

"The great are great only because we are on our knees. Let us rise." - Max Stirner
As I stated, I erred in mentioning Cleo. Sorry about that. Image links (all sfw) for Shion, Ninjacaptor Zakuro and Kinako have been provided. Shion does have the excuse of being an artificial person and probably actually really x years old, but as I understand it that excuse carries no water (weight?) here.

As I stated, I erred in mentioning Cleo. Sorry about that. Image links (all sfw) for Shion, Ninjacaptor Zakuro and Kinako have been provided. Shion does have the excuse of being an artificial person and probably actually X years old, but as I understand it that excuse carries no water (weight?) here.

hxxp://moe.animecharactersdatabase.com/images/2196/Shion.jpg

hxxp://moe.animecharactersdatabase.com/images/2196/Zakuro_Ninjakyaputa.jpg

hxxp://moe.animecharactersdatabase.com/images/2196/Kinako_Tsukiyomi.jpg

(Edited to xx to prevent hotlinking, sorry about that - the images are entirely safe for work.)

These characters all, as I understand it, have explicit content.

I'd state that the work itself is in no way intended to pedo pandering, it just has some content that I would state does fall into that category. Whether the entire work deserves to be expunged for it, or just the specific portions (considering that, if I recall correctly, none of it shows up for the main plot - you'd have to deliberately search for it to get it).

Would it be possible to have a semi "bleached underwear" form of the page omitting such content and with a disclaimer or something stating that it's not to be mentioned, and that it does exist in the game?

edited 26th Apr '12 9:01:44 PM by Jarkill

 
 48 deathpigeon, Thu, 26th Apr '12 9:06:02 PM from Bread, It Is Bread that the Revolution Needs! Relationship Status: One True Dodecahedron
Kaspar the Friendly Spook
You posted the first paragraph twice, and, to avoid hotlinking, do [[link]].

Anyway, how old are the ones other than Shion?
My Blog.

ACAB.

"The great are great only because we are on our knees. Let us rise." - Max Stirner
Kinako is a high school student. Kunagi doesn't appear to be a student, but she's the same age as the protagonist who is. Personally I'd put them all at about 16. Kinako and Kunagi don't really look it though, so they don't get a pass for that.

As for Shion, there's no real way of knowing how old she is. She was created at the age she looks and she'll apparently look like that until she eventually dies.

edited 26th Apr '12 9:29:28 PM by Arha

Yeah, I noticed that - I try and avoid spamming too many tabs, so I copy and paste, press back, and then go back to make sure I know what I'm responding to and check if there have been any new posts. Must have accidentally copied it twice or something, sorry about that.

I don't think it's specifically stated. Kinako goes to the same "school" as some of the older, adult characters during the start (as in, third year senior classes or something I think, but the schools are literally special schools and thus might be weird or something).

And for once I don't double check to make sure I don't accidentally do it again, and then I get ninja'd. Oops.

edited 26th Apr '12 9:30:27 PM by Jarkill

 
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