LGBTQ+ Rights and Religion

Still easy to answer, in fact. Because the difference is the same between a Christian professional photographer being required to take pictures of a Muslim marriage and the same photographer being required to participate in the religious ceremony.

"And as long as a sack of shit is not a good thing to be, chivalry will never die."

I must say, I'm not very sympathetic to those claiming discrimination because they're not being allowed their right to discriminate against people. Seems kind of hypocritical.

What's precedent ever done for us?

As a Catholic, I'm absolutely appalled at what that doctor did. I'm with Rem on this one; it doesn't matter how the disease was contracted, you have an obligation to help. The first part of the Hippocratic Oath is "Do no harm." Letting someone die because you don't agree with their beliefs is pretty much right up there in the definition. By that logic, if I were a nurse I'd let every idiot who texted "YOLO" before being checked into the hospital go without painkillers for a little while. But even I wouldn't let them frickin' die of it.

And not just a professional obligation, a religious one as well! I guess this woman forgot about the parable of the Good Samaritan.

If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.

Or the paert where you're supposed to leave Judging People up to God.

Yeah, but his standards are terrible.

even so, my point was techniclly its a SIN to pass judgement on others because thats supposed to be God's thing, not yours.

I see Christians pass judgement all the time. One of my old churches may as well have been a courtroom.

Admittedly, Christians do pass judgement a lot. They're not supposed to, since its against the rules, but they forget things like that when convenient for them. That said, it's not all of us. Just a very visible and vocal portion.

And God's standards aren't terrible. Once more, this is a case of the judgmental Christians forgetting when convenient. Love thy neighbor as thyself is the whole of the law. If you follow that, you're more or less good. There is the passage by Jesus of "no one gets to the Father except through me," but there are so many interpretations to what that means its inevitable that a lot of people are going to do something bad in its name. Personal interpretation (which I get from Pope JP 2.0) is that no one goes to Heaven except those who strive to emulate Christ i.e. by loving their neighbor as themselves.

I honestly wish more Christians thought that way. Or at least were more vocal about it. The others give us a bad name.

edited 11th Sep '13 6:38:02 AM by Frishman

If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.

The problem with never judging anyone is that you have no way of dealing with people who are being objectively terrible. Like God. I mean really, have you actually looked at his standards lately? Most ass-backward nonsense I've ever read.

Being judgmental is not the same as passing judgement. Or exercising discretion.

edited 11th Sep '13 6:34:23 AM by soban

Could you perhaps explain what the difference is? It's apparently rather subtle because I seem to have missed it.

Given that we have a whole book of "Judges" and two whole books of "Law" I think that it's pretty clear that exercising Judgment against criminals is not what is intended. So, lets look at the context.

Matthew 7:1-5 “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

I think it's pretty clear that what he's talking about is living by the standards you claim to uphold. If you set a standard that you expect others to follow, you should follow it yourself.

Ok, so what is being judgmental then? Basically just that. Holding others to a higher standard then you hold yourself. Judging others but not yourself as wrong if held to the same standard.

EDIT: actually, what soban said. That's much better than what I had.

In non-purple terms, God's laws amount to "Don't be a dick." Think what you want about other people, because otherwise what's the poin in free will, but don't shove your opinion down their throats until they choke on it.

It sounds like you've had a very bad experience with either religion in general or Christianity in particular. Gotta say I'm really sorry about that. I reiterate, we're not all terrible people.

edited 11th Sep '13 6:53:13 AM by Frishman

If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.

God's rules are in the end pretty simple.

1. Care about God the most. 2. Care about others as much as yourself.

His standard is "You knew it was wrong and did it anyway."

and the first one is where I get off the train, as I care about my family and friends far more than I do a deity.

I know there are decent Christians. It sucks when you have scum representing you and the media pretty much gives them free publicity. I would like to see the media give an outlet to more reasonable religious people. Prime example being Stephen Colbert, who doesn't shy away from acknowledging his Catholicism.

I prefer the god of toilet's rules:

1. Keep your toilet clean or you'll invite diseases to your house.

No judging on other people's sexual life, just plain common sense, even if the scope is quite narrow.

My President is Funny Valentine.

I actually don't have much problem with religion IRL because I come from an almost entirely atheist family.

You know what I noticed? In pretty much every translation I've found, it's always "love the Lord *your* God" not "love the Lord God." Interpret as you will. :)

Oh, okay then.

edited 11th Sep '13 7:09:18 AM by Frishman

If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.

First of all, Frishman. You translated a thousands of years worth of the interpretation and revision of laws on morality as God saying, "Don't be a dick," and made me think of the Pope as a cyborg. For that, you are now my new favorite person (I'll forget in a few hours, what with having been bitten by a radioactive goldfish and all, but still, you're an awesome guy/girl/individual.)

Second, Soban, most of those books were for the sake of establishing a government and legal system. Less passing judgement, more social order. It only applied to people who were a part of the society, and they were punished for breaking laws. Not immorality.

Third, while this is interesting and all, we've gotten off topic.

Fire, air, water, earth...legend has it that when these four elements are gathered, they will form the fifth element...boron.

The bible never actually claims that God is the only god in existence. In fact it explicitly mentions others a few times. Where you guys got this "monotheism" idea from is anyone's guess.

From your angle, yes. From where I sit, I see a false equivalence between things that are genetic determinations, like me being a shade lighter than a mocha latte, and genetic predispositions, of which there is no proof anywhere they can't be adjusted, resisted, changed, or whatever else.

Everyone can spend a thousand posts arguing how the Bible was mistranslated, but everytime you point out a basic, easily verified fact like the above, you get shouted down or called homophobic, or whatever else.

Factoring in the general apathy of people (maybe not undeserved) against Christianity, I can see a campaign to back them into corners where you can call every case of listening to your conscience discrimination, until it's illegal to even pray in public, lest you offend someone.

Admittedly, a Slippery Slope argument, but I'm not sure it's an invalid one.

edited 11th Sep '13 7:35:50 AM by TheStarshipMaxima

It was an honor

@Rem: wait, wait, you mean he *isn't* a cyborg? Then why did we call him "John Paul 2.0?" but yes, we did get off topic. Partly my bad.

@Elfive: because it was easier for the semi-nomadic Israelites to sacrifice to a single God for everyday worship than it would have been to sacrifice to a thousand and one gods dedicated to everything from the moon to foot fungus, which was the other common practice at the time.

Right, so, religious discrimination against the LGBTA community. On the one hand, it's unfair to those who wish to get married in the Church. On the other hand, marriage is treated in the Catholic mindset (can't speak for the others) as a true union of souls, and it is believed that man and woman were created as two halves of an inevitable whole. Like yin and yang. Where it gets weird is transsexuals.

If you meet me have some courtesy, have some sympathy, have some taste. Use all your well-learned politesse or I'll lay your soul to waste.

In some places it is illegal for women to breastfeed in public lest it offend.

And in some areas, I am all for women taking it elsewhere. Just like I have no problems with prayer being banned in some areas.

"Oh wait. She doesn't have a... Forget what I said, don't catch the preggo. Just wear her hat." - Question Marc

and from my side, I see Christians claiming discrimination every time theyre niot allowed to stomp all over other religions or non-religious people in both law and deed.

edited 11th Sep '13 7:34:06 AM by midgetsnowman