Dubs you wonder why happened

You know what's weirder? Stephanie Sheh can SING TOO!

IN JAPANESE!

AS WELL AS VEE, WHO CAN ALSO SING IN JAPANESE!

AND THEY EVEN DUBBED One or two insert songs in the Dvds!

That really puzzles me.

Actually... Ultimate Muscle was a good dub, I think.

But did it go to the Fox Box thanks to its wackiness?

I don't think it had any control over which channel it went to, but yes it was Foxbox (and yes UM is considered one of 4Kids' best).

edited 23rd Jan '12 10:06:30 AM by PikaHikariKT

I don't know, i really don't see this thread going anywhere from but a complaint thread/flame war. Going from the title and all it seems its just inviting that behaviour. I just can't see this thread staying civil

Never the less,

I am going to have go with k on, picking a niche title to dub for the populace is only going to lead you to trouble in the long run

That's a good point-isn't this just an IJBM thread?

Well what makes it hard is that EVERY anime is in the niche market in the United States, I'm afraid.

Indeed. Manga apparently sells better than anime, and the highest sales numbers for a manga volume last year in North America was ~5000 copies sold (for comparison's sake: highest selling collected editions of comics, basically the same thing but for comics, had their highest sales in the ballpark of ~30000 in 2011, and it's quite a ways down the chart before you reach any manga). Anime needs to move more into the spotlight for any series' license to cause any reactions from anyone but anime fans.

As such, niche titles getting dubbed is not strange in the slightest if there is a significant fanbase in the niche anime fandom. In fact, that's just about the only reason to release it at all.

For anime to stop being niche, there needs to be either more anime on public TV that can appeal to international audiences' Lowest Common Denominator (dare I suggest Hayate The Combat Butler?), or anime has to boom somewhere else, but that's a topic for another thread.

edited 23rd Jan '12 5:25:20 PM by burnpsy

~5000 copies sold? OU-chuh.

Well yeah, voice actors say all the time that the REAL reason they are able to do what they do today is because OF THE FANS. They always act grateful to them and have a strong friendship, and for good reason. The fanbase is small enough that actors can talk and befriend them moreso than celebrities in more mainstream titles.

Unfortunately, networks have already lost promise in anime in the United States, which is why they're killing it.

The anime crowd is a decent size in the states, but the dub crowd is tiny. Which, in turn, makes dubs less profitable, which is why there are only like fifty VA's scattered around, which means they have to voice multiple characters, which turns people off dubs, which makes dubs less profitable...in other words, its all Tomu's fault.

Also, I believe Hayate does have a dub...except its only in Asia for some reason. But that would definitely be a good one to try and get more viewers. Simple enough not to put off new viewers, but good enough to draw people in. I suppose the only problem would be the constant Shout Outs to other anime, but that's no big deal.

I lived through the era where subs were unavailible because the markets felt that they were inherently more nichey, so I consider subs killing dubs to be karmic justice.

Muaa haa haa haa haa haa haa.

Moreover, I consider dubbing to have no more Value Added than subbing, but to have substantially higher cost, so it's inherently inefficient.

Sorry Tomu, I needed someone who I know doesn't like dubs, and you were the only one I could remember.

The problem is that generally speaking, people don't like subs. They want to be able to listen to something in a language they understand. Sure, if you can get them into it, its fine, but I can't even remember the last time I saw a subbed show on TV (of course, I haven't watched anything like that in years, so...). Maybe they should try simulcasting something on Cartoon Network or whatever, see how that works.

Distribution by television ALSO has next to nothing in terms of value added.

The demographics are changing as we, as a species, are changing the ways we interact with content.

Tomu, TV distribution earns money through ratings. It's not added value to you, but it would give the companies who license these series more revenue, and therefore allow them to license more series.

Well, I'm derailing into a discussion on the merits of digital piracy and what distributors are leaches, so I guess that's kind of off topic.

My lack of sympathy for dubs is merely one building block in an overarching internally consistent philosophy on how the world should work.

Not that dubs are bad, I just think that they're an acceptable casualty if you're going to say that, for instance, anime ceases to be localized stateside because of the prominence of fansubs.

Dubs draw in a bigger audience, they're the reason anime got popular overseas in the first place. Getting rid of dubs entirely would be the worst possible thing to happen to anime overseas. Short of not getting exported at all.

Yes and no, but I can't explain that without a pretty lengthy lecture aboutt the nature of added value, the inefficiency of copyright laws, the leachhood nature of distributors, the power of the internet, and a bag of pretzels.

I've actually seen large amounts of people who refuse to buy any anime released without a dub.

But I'm getting off-topic, as I said.

Also, kyun, I was serious with that figure.

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=36375

Ctrl+F "Naruto".

edited 23rd Jan '12 5:11:17 PM by burnpsy

Long story short, value added is not created by someone buying something, it's created from them experiencing it.

What would be a better argument is that people would refuse to watch something on Hulu unless it's dubbed. That at least shows that there's value added.

Tomu, you can claim value all you want, but it means nothing when the fanbase is smaller because there's less dubs, less TV airings, and thereby less exposure.

And that it all I have to say on the matter. I don't want to discuss radical ideas on how you believe the world should work.

edited 23rd Jan '12 5:13:00 PM by burnpsy

The fanbase is monstrously larger, because the fanbase is not comprised solely of people that purchase content.

I'm not saying dubs are bad or worthless-I'm merely suggesting that it's a more complicated dynamic than you're giving credit for.

edited 23rd Jan '12 5:16:48 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

The thing is, Tomu, those who purchase content are the people providing revenue to the industry. Everyone else may as well not exist at all, as far as the businessmen are concerned, so whatever happens with fansubs is largely irrelevant unless it leads to people buying the product on the shelves.

So that larger fanbase means as much as they spend.

edited 23rd Jan '12 5:23:25 PM by burnpsy

Right-and that's the point where I have to go into a 20 page power point presentation for why the existing structure is fundamentally flawed, so we'll leave it at that.

THAT BEING SAID, there is a shit-ton of evidence that fansubs do indeed lead to people buying content-both in terms of the actual created content, and even to marketed content, but the anti-piracy advocates would never let you hear as much.

edited 23rd Jan '12 5:31:39 PM by TheyCallMeTomu

Yeah, I'm aware of how fan translations can indeed lead to people buying official releases (an actual example a little while back - a major Negima arc ending in Japan coincided with a sales spike for the first omnibus, despite that omnibus having already been out for over a month at the time, it's hard to argue what caused that...). I also think there's more than a few flaws in the way the current system works, but the current system makes enough sense for me to not want to argue against it (business is business, after all), but w/e, discussing that goes into far more detail than I wish to go into as well.

edited 23rd Jan '12 5:37:35 PM by burnpsy

You're defending an inefficient and corrupt system that disincentivizes the mass releasing of content?

Whatever happened to Row Row Fight The Powaa?

Speaking of-was the dub for that any good?

I didn't say I'm defending it, I'm saying I understand full well why they're using the current system.