Groundhog Day and Rape

Reality is rather different from fantasy. To paraphrase what an earlier poster said, ever seen or heard such fear in that fantasy, as in reality? It would in no way be pleasant.

Fair enough. My view of the main part of the site is that it does not provide enough scope for analysis, it just notes that a character does X, without going into the reason why it is placed in the work. Also because the site is ill-equipped to analyse music. I mean The Libertines get five entries, all of which talk about how Pete and Carl should make out. So. I certainly do think there are problems with the concept as a whole, but it is still fixable.

Dare I ask what that incident may be?

I can kind of understand the feeling of responsibility, though chances are that nothing will change and you'll just end up moving to SA eventually anyway.

Mega edit and such, whatever:

I was more referring to the fact that you said, and I quote: "Just as I am willing to kill a person if I know that I wouldn't go to jail for more than a specified time, and have no prosecution against me because no one ever remembered it after that specified time..." unless omitting the fact that the person not being dead at the end of the thing is part of the movie, I don't see how your statement wasn't "ambiguous as shit".

Fuckin' hell, not subjective morality bullshit. I was into that shit back when I was 14, I did not know people actually used that in arguments. There is a clear right and wrong in some instances, rape and child fucking are examples of those. This isn't fucking Airstrip One, this is just good morals.

Because they actually rape someone, as opposed to fantasizing about an idealized and romanticized version of it. Simple enough for ya?

edited 6th Dec '11 7:10:33 PM by YeahBro

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.

Fixed that perspective for you.

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

If a Movie/TV show isn't considered fantasy, but rather reality, then no. I've never seen or heard such fear...

My point, as I've stated multiple times, is that nothing in a time-loop exists in reality. Yes, it may affect the person taking the actions during such a loop... But that doesn't mean it's affected by morality. Because personal morality doesn't exist in a fantasy world unless the person affected chooses it to.

Does it mean a person should do any such thing? No. But the answer to the OP's question is "It doesn't matter what one does in such a situation, because it's essentially a fantasy replica of the real world until the last iteration of the loop."

There really is no context in which raping someone isn't a morally reprehensible thing.

To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

Notice that you just said 'rape and child fucking', not 'thoughts of rape and child fucking'. You just changed your argument.

While the human mind is weak at distinguishing reality from fantasy, that doesn't mean you can import morals into the realm of fantasy, wholesale, and have them make sense.

If you want to make such arguments, base them on research on the actual neurological effects of fantasizing.

edited 6th Dec '11 7:16:38 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

Surely detailed fantasizing about child fucking and rape is just a sign that you are willing to rape or fuck children. It is not rocket science.

So forgive me for assuming that wanting to rape or fuck children is a sign of the desire to rape or to fuck children. It seems like you are getting into a semantic argument for the sake of rape/paedophile apologism.

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.

Please address the actual argument. You were talking about thoughts making you a bad person, which is a concept I will ALWAYS oppose, no matter what thoughts we are discussing. If you wish to retract that claim, you better retract it, rather than engaging in clever evasions.

*

edited 6th Dec '11 7:34:45 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

Jesus Christ, everyone is so quick to jump to Orwell as soon as anyone suggests that whacking it off to the thought of fucking a little kid might be somewhat wrong. Sure, there is no legal precedent to charge a fucker for fantasizing about that shit, it is still a sign that they want to fuck kids or rape people. So, while I would never want people like that arrested (until they could find actual evidence of wrongdoing), they are still fucking reprehensible and awful people.

I am honestly surprised that there is a place in the world where pro-rape people outnumber anti-rape people. That's fucked up.

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.

"Fair enough. My view of the main part of the site is that it does not provide enough scope for analysis, it just notes..."

Damn straight.

"I can kind of understand the feeling of responsibility, though chances are that nothing will change and you'll just end up moving to SA eventually anyway."

You're right. But I'd like to get in a few solid punches before I throw in the towel.

Stop right there, maaan. You're treading some seriously swampy ground right there. You can't pull that "Thoughtcrime, waaah!" defense when the subect is rape and child-fucking. If you're going to stick with that position, I'll sooner dash a cat upon jagged, sea-salt encrusted rocks before I quit hounding you.

Holy crap, would you believe me if I told you that I hadn't seen your post at all before I posted mine?

edited 6th Dec '11 7:43:57 PM by DisasterGrind

Just saw it, I feel really sorry for you, it must be hard to talk about it.

Great minds think alike, though in this instance "great" may just be "sane."

edited 6th Dec '11 7:44:40 PM by YeahBro

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.

DG, YB, do you think that there's a difference between someone with a rape kink who fully knows how damaging rape really is and hates it in real life and a rape apologist? Because the vibe I'm getting is you think they're one and the same, while I think it's alright to have messed up kinks if you KNOW how messed up they are and wouldn't act on them. Fetishes are worse, they're a psychological need and obviously that gets REALLY dangerous when it comes to stuff like rape or abuse.

"You fail to grasp the basic principles of mad science. Common sense would be cheating." - Narbonic

Then hound me. I don't think fantasizing about such things is healthy — in fact, if I find out someone I know does that, I would be pulling them up*

^{but not with such stupidities as moral condemnation}

and most likely cutting them out of my life. I just think it's stupid^9000, the idea that thought-policing is actually okay, ever, in the absence of a really sound scientific understanding of the connection of thought with action; that you can assign moral value to something that you have so little concrete information about*

^{yeah, I say this even after reading your post in full}

, just says to me that you believe far too much in your own moral intuitions, and far too little in objective ways to verify it.

It's amusing that you think there is such a thing as a sane person.

edited 6th Dec '11 7:54:57 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

Yeah, I get the difference, rape kinks are unusual and I'd rather people kept it to themselves, but I get that they are an idealized and romanticized version of the actual act and that people with rape kinks probably would not be rapists. (As in they are neither mutually exclusive or mutually inclusive). However someone who is willing to rape someone in a Groundhog Day loop setting is not just someone with a rape kink, but is rather a rapist.

SO: You keep on going with subjective morality, without identifying that there are things that should be assigned an objective moral value. I can understand the belief in subjective morality as a thought experiment, but not when you are using it to justify child fucking or really anything. (But child fucking is the most poignant example of why subjective morality is hosed up)

edited 6th Dec '11 7:50:57 PM by YeahBro

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.

"Just saw it, I feel really sorry for you, it must be hard to talk about it."

It used to be, but now I'm a Badass Longcoat Tsundere Genius Bruiser who Took A Level In Badass.

"Great minds think alike, though in this instance "great" may just be "sane.""

Once again, damn straight.

Is this on-topic?

No but the topic's gotten pretty disgusting a points so maybe a derail isn't a bad thing.

To the last I grapple with thee; from hell's heart I stab at thee; for hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee.

"DG, YB, do you think that there's a difference between someone with a rape kink who fully knows how damaging rape really is and hates it in real life and a rape apologist?"

Yes, I realize the difference. That's why I never go after anyone mentioning their rape kink, or paedophiles that know that their sexuality is damaging. A rape kink isn't the exact same as the desire to actually rape, and what.

Savage Orange, your whole latest post reads like the monologue of a fictional character in a work penned by a troper who just read some George Orwell and Ayn Rand, but couldn't take anything meaningful away from any of it.

edited 6th Dec '11 9:06:29 PM by DisasterGrind

^^ You would think that it'd be simple...

After all, doesn't one have something better to do with his time than make people miserable for a day?

edited 6th Dec '11 7:54:29 PM by Colonial1.1

There are things which it's valuable to agree on the moral value of, as a society. I'd hesitate to call that 'objective' — it's more like 'societal' or 'cultural' — it's a subset of subjective in which the subject is a society as a whole.

(btw ' should be assigned an objective moral value' is QED.)

edited 6th Dec '11 8:03:02 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

Are you me during my angsty, whine about nothing, pretend to be disillusioned, stupid git phase in High-School? Because you really do sound like that. I really hope you are just a fifteen year old with no real understanding of the world, because otherwise, that's just kind of sad.

An edit for an edit, broski:

Call it whatever the fuck you want. Provided you agree that rape and kiddy-fiddling is wrong on a fundamental level, then you are at least on the track to being right.

edited 6th Dec '11 8:03:56 PM by YeahBro

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.

Sure, there are people with better and worse grasps of the world and society. But there's no one who achieves the level of actual sanity (ie. their beliefs reliably map onto reality). The world's way too complex for that.

I believe they are bad for humanity. Again, that's still subjective morality (where the subject is humanity as a whole). You can go up as many levels as you want and you'll never get to anything truly fundamental, morally. That's my position as a consequentialist; I gather you are some kind of moral realist, and probably a deontologist.

edited 6th Dec '11 8:09:01 PM by SavageOrange

'Don't beg for anything, do it yourself, or else you won't get anything.'

@OP: Well it depends. If we are to assume a loop in that the previous day is wiped from time before the new one begins then basically it didn't happen so -shrug-.

If we get into alternate realities or multiple time streams then shit gets complicated.

I think i can shorten the question: If you chop down a tree but then you didn't; are you lumberjack?

Is using "Julian Assange is a Hillary butt plug" an acceptable signature quote?

Enough already with the insults, gents.

I think you and I are working under different definitions of sanity. Dare I say that I think that your usage of the word is deliberately obscure and different in order to seem like you have a profound understanding of the world. Actually, this still sounds like something I would have said as an angsty teen who was trying to seem like a pseudo-intellectual.

All I do, is sit down at the computer, and start hittin' the keys. Getting them in the right order, that's the trick.