Rename (new crowner Oct 21): Newton Einstein Surak

Fictional Future Celebrity should be a separate trope, for fictional future celebrities. This trope is about listing them alongside real-life historical celebrities. Fictional Future Celebrity isn't even close to being a fitting name for this.

edited 21st Oct '11 11:14:19 AM by HiddenFacedMatt

None of the names are good. Most imply some rule of three that isn't needed for the trope. Or they are completely missing the point all together.

The trope is: A fictional celebrity is listed along side actual similar celebrities in order to establish alternate or future history.

And note that it doesn't have to be people either. Something like Telephones Computers Robot Butlers would be an example.

Or "camera phones, androids, clone vats, and bullet trains." It's not about the number or the order. It's about the juxtaposition of new and old.

The trope isn't confined to sci-fi either. It can be used for alternate history as well which the current winning name has forgotten.

edited 21st Oct '11 11:28:07 AM by shimaspawn

I wrote that for simple space saving. "Sci Fi" is shorter to write than "Speculative Fiction", especially when the repetition beforehand was long enough. But I will post an alternative that doesn't limited it to names.

The names are still making it seem like a rule of three when it's not.

Well the (s) markup is the best way to show it could be any number, so I put an option for that on the crowner.

But Rule of Three is the most concise way of conveying "pattern" + "interesting deviation from pattern." It gets to the point faster and more memorably than a clunky four-element list. Besides, the description says that the trope is "extremely prone to Rule of Three."

EDIT: Ah. Fair enough then.

edited 21st Oct '11 3:23:06 PM by Embryon

That was more aimed at things like Two Real One Fictional. Things that are explicitly three and were winning for a bit.

I don't see that having three descriptors in the title implies an iron-bound Rule of Three.

Those aren't the ones I'm talking about. Never mind.

Gah, I wish I'd seen this when the question was just whether to rename or not. I think all these alternatives are much worse than Newton, Einstein, Surak, which doesn't require having the slightest idea who Surak was, just that it's alieny/futurey.

There's nothing "alieny/futurey" about the name Surak, though. As pointed out earlier in the thread, there are several real-life scientists with that name.

Surak is just a name. There are a bunch of modern and past scientists with that name. I knew people with that last name growing up. It just sounds like someone who wishes that they were as good.

And that's where "as famous/important as" comes to help out. Added to the crowner.

As Important As Newton Einstein Surak isn't bad.

That still doesn't do anything to indicate that this is an alternate history trope especially to people who aren't science savvy. It just sounds like a scientist that they think they should know and it sounds like some stock phrase about being ambitious. Surak isn't a sci-fi name. It's just a normal fairly common name. Here's one Dr. Surak. There are others.

edited 22nd Oct '11 10:44:10 AM by shimaspawn

...There's also fictional people called Newton or Einstein. Really, I don't see the problem. Trope Names Are Not Literal.

Trope names are not literal, but they should at least indicate the trope.

Names may not be literal, but if the intent is "two normal names and a scifi one" then we really need an example where the third name is actually a scifi name, and not a normal name like Surak.

From the page quote there's Xaxxix'x, but I'll bet my lungs and my children's it will be mispelled all the time.

I'm with suedenim though, these alternatives are no better than Newton, Einstein, Surak in my opinion.

Imma restate my idea from last page: Da Vinci Euclid And Braino, from the very similar Futurama example. At least "Braino" sounds sci-fi and fictional.

Gotta say I'm really not liking the alternates at all, and I think that if we can't agree on something better we should keep As Important As Newton Einstein And Surak to fall back on.

EDIT: Another from Star Trek The Original Series, we have Napoleon Hitler And Krotus. EDIT AGAIN: Which bluelinks to a blank page, what.

edited 23rd Oct '11 3:14:52 PM by Gillespie

Napoleon Hitler And Krotus sounds good to me, unless someone digs up an obscure General Krotus who was a Brigadier General in the Slovakian Army, of course....

That's still a real name. It just sounds like two famous generals and one obscure one.

I really think we should steer clear of actual names, they do not portray the trope imo.