The Satanism Thread

Well apparently no one had anything to say in the last 23 hours about my radical move.

Though I think enough hours have passed that editing my last post would cause not too many people to notice the edit.

Anyway, I have been working on a video series on Satanism and uploaded the introduction and first video today.

Yay for me, back into the youtube scene. Now watch all my old Confederate buddies "mourn" for my soul.

The intro is fairly a subjective mission statement: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi2Iu4eoyjA

The first video is objective research in video form!:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yi2Iu4eoyjA

Hey, tvtropes is in the bibliography for the Satan and Satan Is Good articles, since they helped lead me to other sites with the info/examples.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

... OK, I'm really not seeing the point of that little 'ritual'. Apart from giving the middle finger to Abrahamic religions.

And frankly, I don't know any one who thinks that 'blaspheming against the holy spirit' condemns you to hell. What would that even mean, anyway?

Be not afraid...

Did you read the quote? The Bible itself says that it's not forgivable, again,

As for the other part, it's to overcome certain psychological inhibitions. If you read the whole post you will see that I fully explained it's additional purposes for me. If you do not understand how this could be liberating for me then that's not my problem. This is the Left Hand Path, breaking taboos is part of it's foundation. For me the taboo in question is being able to fully express how I really feel. I grew up in a fundamentalist environment for my entire teenage life, and this marks me leaving it behind forever.

And it is a "ritual", it involves a certain format (specifically being in front of one black candle, doing an opening invocation if wanted, and reciting in your own words the renunciation three nights in a row).

I sense that you are somehow offended. If so, I suggest you just leave the topic. If someone comes to this thread and is offended it makes about as much sense as walking into a Casino and complaining that the gambling offends you.

If you ask the same thing again I'm only going to assume that you can't be bothered to read before you post.

edit: but if you really want to know, just read the whole page for yourself: http://theisticsatanism.com/rituals/blasphemy/renunciation.html

edited 23rd Oct '11 11:15:45 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

Well, if someone is literally-minded enough to think that "blaspheming against the Holy Spirit" means "saying offensive things about it", then I guess that it looks like it kind of works.

Sorry, but this just does not make sense. That's not a Moral Event Horizon, and it's not even remotely close to being the ultimate sin — that's just someone saying offensive things about Something that is far beyond their (or mine) understanding.

It's pretty much the equivalent of a little kid shouting "I hate you, mom! You are not my momma anymore!", then running into "his" room of his mother's apartment. It's bratty, certainly; but some sort of unforgivable abomination, this is not.

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

What, are you saying with your analogy that I will never stop being "God's child" because I once was a Christian?

How many times do I have to tell you people that THE BIBLE claims that it is unforgivable? I put the link to moral event horizon with irony.

I gave you two freaking Bible Verses that CLEAR AS DAY claim it to unforgivable.

Why is no one actually listening to me? What? Is all that you guys can do is skim through my posts instead of being bothered to actually read them?

Again,

This is the supposed supreme law saying this, so it goes without saying that it's a pretty big deal.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

The Bible says a lot of things that we have since let fall by the wayside. People still bury their dead and care for their families, despite Jesus himself saying they should drop everything to follow him. Nobody tells rich people that they are going straight to hell for being rich (at least, nobody I know). Women go to church and pray with their hair uncovered despite St Paul saying that this is a sin.

The attitude of "It's in the bible; therefore it is an integral part of Christianity and every single Christian denomination follows it!" bugs me, which is the reason I mentioned it.

Yeah, I agree... I think blaspheming against the Holy Spirit would have to take a lot more than just saying nasty things about it.

edited 23rd Oct '11 11:26:42 PM by LoniJay

Be not afraid...

Your completely missing the point, and it's more than just "saying bad things about it". It involves that, yes, but more importantly it involves rejecting the Holy Ghost.

edit: for example, my renouncement after the blasphemes against God the Father,

As you can hopefully see it has more to do with than just saying bad things.

edited 23rd Oct '11 11:34:40 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

No, that's completely incorrect. You'll never stop because you are a human being (at least, I presume ). And yeah, this even covers the possibility of damnation.

Look, I can see that you are getting worked up; and, rest assured, I am not attempting to preach at you or convince you of anything; but let me say, for someone whose religion is apparently defined by its opposition to Christianity, you seem to have a markedly disingenuous understanding of it.

EDIT:

Yeah, this is definitely in the "you are not my momma anymore!" category.

edited 23rd Oct '11 11:37:32 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Understanding of which? Satanism or Christianity?

And as far as being human and therefore 'god's child' I do not believe that obviously, since I do not believe that he is the true cosmic god.

It just irritates me that you and the guy with the frog avatar can't make sense of it so you think its pointless.

edit: so what if its in that catagory? whats your point?

edit 2: i mean, the ritual is explicitly for ex Christians, why wouldnt it be like that?

This is the point of the ritual in a nutshell:

edited 23rd Oct '11 11:41:22 PM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

You did not address my first point at all; just because something is written in the Bible does not make it a part of every Christian's beliefs.

And your renunciation of God is still only words. It is my belief that to truly reject God/the Holy Spirit you would need actions.

The intent to reject God does not always mean you have rejected Him. In my eyes, someone who says what you have quoted but then lives their life as a kind, generous, compassionate person would not have actually rejected God.

And it is equally possible to go to Church every Sunday and sing songs of praise to God, but then treat everyone like trash in daily life. Such a person has rejected God, despite saying the contrary.

Be not afraid...

Of Christianity.

And I understand that you don't believe in Christianity and in anything that it implies. I was just pointing out that your little ritual, who you said being the "ultimate sin" and a true Moral Event Horizon, is definitely not such — not from your personal system of morals, obviously, but not from a Christian perspective either.

And yeah, from my point of view, that rite is pointless. Ill-advised, definitely, and perhaps a little offensive, but certainly not something from which there is no return.

My point is that you apparently think of it as some sort of ultimate act of breaking your relationship with the divinity — much in the same sense in which a little kid would, perhaps, think that by saying "you are not my momma anymore" he stopped being a part of the family. Both beliefs are equally mistaken, I think.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think that that rite (what I have read of it in the site) is a bad idea. If you asked me if I thought that you should do it, I would tell you not to — not so much for the blasphemy, but for what believing in its irrevocability could cause one to do next. But the rite, in itself, is not even close to being what you think that it is.

"Christian theology" means a lot of different things to different groups. But in most of the varieties I know something about, and definitely within the Catholic tradition to which I and Loni belong to, this is completely false. This is a claim about Christianity, and not about your own belief system.

edited 23rd Oct '11 11:54:18 PM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

The ritual does not adhere to your standards, or the standards of any Christian. It is a completely subjective experience that is designed to work in a way, that if the Bible were true, would mean that I was forever damned with no chance of repentance.

It seems to me that

Illustrates this point clearly. It doesn't matter what you believe. What matters is what I used to believe.

The basic use of the ritual is not just for ex Christians or even Satanists,

The only thing that matters here is that my old faith (I rejected Christianity almost a year and a half ago, only a satanist for about 8 months) based the ultimate truth in the Bible, meaning that old me would of said "It only matters what the Bible says".

The fact that you are not a fundamentalist Christian does not devalue the gravity of the ritual in the context of a former fundamentalist. It seems completely perplexing to me how you can try to apply your standards to my beliefs and think that it will work.

Can't anyone back me up on this point? I know my argument is sound.

edit:

You still have the issue of Matthew 12:31-32 and Mark 3:28-29. But I will give you credit, the site does say that there are theologians who say the sin is almost impossible to commit. Regardless, the Bible is the ultimate authority of Christianity.

And as far as your analogy, that's assuming that your parents are not bad people. My mother kicked me out of her house for attempting suicide and my brother has threatened to completely cut me off before because of my beliefs with Satanism, so your analogy kind of backfires for me based on my experiences with my family in real life.

And for the record, I have a fairly well grasp on Christianity, Baptist flavor. I think we just may be not be clear on which view of Christianity we are speaking from.

edited 24th Oct '11 12:01:24 AM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

So, you do not actually believe what you are saying, but you are saying it as a symbolic gesture of rejecting your past self? That is not the impression I got from your first post, but OK.

Would you please stop ignoring me every time I say this is not so? Repeatedly dodging a point like this does not make your argument look good.

Be not afraid...

Yes, that is the mundane half of it. I still think that Yahweh will probably cut me of as well too though. I defined earlier that I do not believe him to be the true cosmic god but that he still is real and has power, as it makes no sense to just out right deny him when he has had an effect on the world.

And as far as the Canon of the Bible is concerned, the Bible itself asserts that it is the only truth in several verses, and that it is unchanging and never wrong. I was taught the fundamentalist view that this is so. By the fundamentalist definition, not my own:

""All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17"

"I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed.... For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ." Galatians 1:6-8,10

"Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needs not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness." 2 Timothy 2:15

Of course I do not believe in these claims, but from a Biblical perspective my statement was true. I am merely saying that from the context the ritual makes sense.

While I do believe that the Bible isn't true, I believe certain parts have some truth. As such I feel that in addition to the mundane symbolic gesture of the ritual the grain of truth here is that the tie between me and Yahweh will be pernamentaly severed.

Does that make sense? (also i am not devaluing your beliefs, only presenting the reasoning of why I said what I said in terms of the context of my former, now long abandoned beliefs)

edited 24th Oct '11 12:22:30 AM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

I have to run, but just one thing. You know what none of these statements say? They don't say that everything that is in the Bible is literally, factually true if interpreted in the most unsubtle way imaginable. This would be pretty much untenable, by the way, as there would be quite the number of obvious contradictions if you interpreted the Bible in this way.

Also, the passage of Galatians that you mention talks of the "gospel" — that is, of the "good message" of Christianity — you know, the Incarnation, the Resurrection, and so on. It does not talk directly of the Christian canon, which was compiled quite some time later.

edited 24th Oct '11 12:31:39 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

So your previous denomination adhered to everything in the Bible? That sounds like it would be... difficult... in modern Western society.

And using a quote from the bible to prove claims that the Bible is infallible is sort of... begging the question (I hope I used that term right). You can't use an axiom to prove a point, when the axiom itself depends on the point being true.

While I guess I can see why you would do a 'ritual' like this, it still doesn't strike me as particularly healthy. If you define yourself by hating the things that you used to endorse... then aren't you still letting it define you?

It seems like you would be better served to construct religious beliefs and rituals based on what you think is right, not on what you think is wrong with another religion.

Be not afraid...

I am unaware of other ways to look at it, I was taught that you can't pick and choose the parts of the Bible you like and that you have to accept all of it or none of it. My father believes this and believes that the Bible never changes and quite often used that verse about it always being relevant (2 Timothy 3:16-17) often. I was taught that and it conflicted with me often. As far as I know looking at it any other way is uncommon, and that it is only the interpretation of the Bible that differs as opposed to the Bible being not all true.

It won't define me after the ritual, that's the supernatural side of it. And yes, other than things like animal sacrifice and dietary laws they followed everything. My dad's church is named "Faith Bible Church" if that gives you any indication. They are fundamentalists after all. But in their defense they are not violent or extremist in anyway, or part of the Christian Right Wing in any direct way as far as I know. They do not try to force other people around them to adhere to their practices as far as I know.

Let's take an example: My dad believes in the literal 7 day creation, and likes Answers in Genesis. Sadly, he's a chemical engineer, and can't see the fallacy in this. This is the kind of teaching I was given.

The ritual is technically as such:

But with me it's more like "I can overcome a lot of irrational inhibitions by telling my subconscious that I am no longer going to Heaven.

Remember that I do not believe in Hell, but that I do believe in a place called Heaven where I would be enslaved unless I do this. That's why for me it is more than just a symbolic gesture. There is a grain of literal truth in the ritual for me.

edited 24th Oct '11 2:01:37 AM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

"The Bible is always relevant" is not quite the same thing as "everything that the Bible contains is literally, factually true".

But in any case... apparently you grew up in a very rigid, literalist variant of Christianity — really, we are well inside Straw Fundamentalist territory here. Now you rejected it, and you made some sort of "rite" that, according to what you say, would irrevocably condemn you to hell if that variant of Christianity was true.

All right. But this does not mean that Christianity, as a whole, believes this to be the case: most denominations that I know of — Orthodox, Catholic, Anglicans, and so on — would dismiss that claim outright, for example.

I won't comment your beliefs — it goes without saying that I strongly disagree with them, but this is not the right thread for me to attack them.

edited 24th Oct '11 2:22:14 AM by Carciofus

But they seem to know where they are going, the ones who walk away from Omelas.

Yes.

Though I have not done it yet, I start the rite on Friday. Both my dad's church, and the Pentecostal High School I went to for 3 years taught that it was always right and never wrong and never changed.

Though I will say that while my dad's church had good intentions, the High School I went to did not, and their actions helped me to look back at my fundamental beliefs and reevaluate them. I more or less mention this in my intro to the series of youtube videos on Satanism titled "video Zero: Introduction". I linked it earlier this night on here. The intro and first video have only been up for about 22.5 hours.

edit: made a couple of corrections

edited 24th Oct '11 2:31:49 AM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

So wait. You were disillusioned by one extreme and figured the only acceptable option was to jump to the other extreme?

In my opinion, that seems kinda dumb.

No, I was disillusioned and decided to become a Deist. Only nearly a year later did I decide to go to "the other extreme".

Though I do not like calling it "the other extreme" as it implies ignorant and inaccurate connotations on Satanism's part, it implies a direct and two sided duality in terms of the two religions.

(read here: "you make it sound like im a reverse christian and I dont like that as my belief in Satanism is not a response to disillusionment.")

My beliefs are actually, as of now, a mix of elements from Satanism(various sects), Buddhism, Taoism, and Gnosticism. I am actually writing up my beliefs and it's really well rounded. I just identify myself primarily as a Satanist, since Satan is the only god I directly revere.

edit: if you read this earlier re-read the second paragraph and the new line below it, I more accurately articulated what I meant.

edited 24th Oct '11 3:00:29 AM by jasonwill2

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

I just realized that after I do this three day rite I can actually tell Bible based denominations that I rejected the Holy Ghost and so their prayers are useless.

Maybe it will at least stop some people I know stop saying "I'll pray for you" like I have some fucking disease that needs cured.

Of course actively saying that I revere/worship Satan doesn't help it, but they will say it about anyone that is not a Christian, and even other Christians is what bothers me.

On another topic, I've heard a lot about Alister Crowley, but I'm not familiar with Thelema. My understanding is that he helped codify certain elements of modern Satanism.

Does anyone know anything of this?

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

I wouldn't call Crowley a Satanist. He played up the Beast/Antichrist angle for shock value, but didn't actually believe in or worship Satan in any capacity. Thelema actually borrows more heavily from ancient Egyptian religion (well, rather, the world's limited understanding of ancient Egypt at the time), though it's not really an Egyptian revival so much as it is a new-ish religious system dressed up in a lot of Egyptian symbolism. You might try here for more complete information on Thelema, and here for a bunch of Crowley's writings.

Somehow you know that the time is right.

Well I should of clarified when I said help "codify" I meant that I heard he was very influential on people such as La Vey.

But I also heard that he purposely didn't call it Satanism to distinguish it from weird forms of Satanism at the time, but that more or less certain elements were very influential in shaping Modern Satanism.

it was something I heard some of my Satanists friend say on facebook. I wasn't in the conversation though.

I should of asked: ""what is his relation to Satanism?"

Good to know though, I'll look at the links.

as of the 2nd of Nov. has 6 weeks for a broken collar bone to heal and types 1 handed and slowly

Yeah, I can see how he was probably influential on the development of modern Satanism, though I'd say LaVey et al. went in a purposefully Darker and Edgier direction with the whole thing.

Somehow you know that the time is right.