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48 Month Welfare Limit Bill Signed in Michigan

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Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#26: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:22:37 PM

[up][up] No one thinks that. And unions have nothing to do with it.

If everyone thought that a glorious return was happening, 67% of my classmates wouldn't be older men who need a new education.

edited 17th Sep '11 9:22:49 PM by Thorn14

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#27: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:23:07 PM

Yet another casualty of the death of American industry, I suppose.

Fucking Chinese Government...

I am now known as Flyboy.
MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#29: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:24:05 PM

[up] Gee, a united auto workers group who wants their glory days to return. Shocking.

[up][up] The American Car Industry went complete retard in the 80s and 90s and its what lead Japan to take over. They still haven't recovered.

edited 17th Sep '11 9:24:46 PM by Thorn14

MajorTom Since: Dec, 2009
#30: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:24:50 PM

^ And the politicians who run Detroit's corrupt politics. They liked that the unions secured easy wins for their side.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#31: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:25:43 PM

UnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnionsUnions is that all you talk about?

Of course the unions and politicians want their glory days to return. Wouldn't you!?

edited 17th Sep '11 9:26:00 PM by Thorn14

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#32: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:26:45 PM

Because other politicians don't like that corporations secure easy wins for their sides?

I mean, at least be fair, corporations and unions are interchangeably corrupt when it comes to politics.

As for the car companies being stupid, yeah, I'd buy that...

I am now known as Flyboy.
Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#33: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:27:23 PM

Don't blame the Chinese government for wanting propserity for their own country.

edited 17th Sep '11 9:28:49 PM by Erock

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#34: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:27:48 PM

China has zilch to do with Detroit and Michigan.

Kino Since: Aug, 2010 Relationship Status: Californicating
#35: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:27:52 PM

It's a 4 year lifetime limit? That sucks, peole can go in and out of employment over their lifetime; I say switch it to a 1 year limit after unemployment sets in.

Erock Proud Canadian from Toronto Since: Jul, 2009
Proud Canadian
#36: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:29:14 PM

[up]I think it sort of works like that already.

If you don't like a single Frank Ocean song, you have no soul.
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#37: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:29:37 PM

Dn't blame the Chinese government for wanting propserity for their own country.

I blame them for wanting money for their own pockets at our expense. Don't make any mistake, I have a problem with their government, not the people there.

If they were actually outcompeting us fairly, I'd find some other way to deal with it.

I suppose Japan is more to blame for the car companies, though. That and their own stupidity...

I am now known as Flyboy.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#38: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:30:42 PM

The problem is multiple. We relied too much on the car industry. And our city's reputation made it where few wanted to go here.

I mean, other than cars, what do people think when they hear Michigan? I bet you its not positive.

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#39: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:32:04 PM

The only city my parents name with more derision than Chicago is Detroit...

I am now known as Flyboy.
Enkufka Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ from Bay of White fish Since: Dec, 2009
Wandering Student ಠ_ಠ
#40: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:34:10 PM

From Wikipedia:

By 1969, imports had increased their share of the U.S. auto market, with Volkswagen selling 548,904 vehicles, followed by Toyota with 127,018 vehicles. In response to this, the domestic auto makers introduced new compact and sub-compact cars, such as the Ford Pinto and Maverick, the Chevrolet Vega, and the AMC Gremlin, Hornet and Pacer. However, design and manufacturing problems inflicted a number of these cars and led to unfavorable perceptions of the cars.

The auto industry was severely affected by the 1973 oil crisis Arab embargo. Small fuel-efficient cars from foreign automakers took a sharply higher share of the U.S. auto sales market. The federal government initiated fuel efficiency standards (known as Corporate Average Fuel Economy, or CAFE) in 1975, effective as of 1978 for passenger cars, and as of 1979 for light trucks. For passenger cars, the initial standard was 18 miles per gallon (mpg), and increased to 27.5 mpg by 1985.

General Motors began responding first to the high gas prices, by downsizing most of their models by 1977. In 1979, the second oil price spike occurred, precipitated by political events in Iran, resulting in the 1979 energy crisis. By 1980, the economy slid into turmoil, with high inflation, high unemployment, and high interest rates. The automakers suffered large operating losses. Chrysler was hurt most severely and in 1979 received a bailout from the federal government in the form of $1.5 billion in loan guarantees, one quick fix was a Detroit-built version of their then-new French (Simca) economy car, the Horizon.

As bold and confident as the Big Three automakers were in the 1950s and 1960s, the American auto makers in the 1970s and 1980s stumbled badly, going from one engineering, manufacturing or marketing disaster to another. Ford reaped a public relations nightmare when it was revealed that the Pinto's gas tank was vulnerable to exploding when hit from behind. Ford knew about this vulnerability but did not design any safeguards in order to save a few dollars per vehicle. They rationalized that the cost of lawsuits would be less than the cost of redesigning the car. GM had a string of miscues starting with the Chevrolet Vega, which developed a reputation for rapidly rusting and having major problems with the aluminum engine. Cadillac damaged their reputation when the four-cylinder Cadillac Cimarron was introduced in 1981 (a gussied-up Chevrolet Cavalier at twice the price) and the "V8-6-4" engine didn't work as advertised. GM's reputation was also damaged when it revealed in 1977 that they were installing Chevrolet engines in Oldsmobiles, and lawsuits from aggrieved Oldsmobile owners followed. Likewise litigation ensued when a trio of diesel engines, designed from gasoline engines and used in GM cars from 1978 to 1985 suffered major problems. Class action lawsuits and efforts from the Federal Trade Commission resulted in buybacks of the cars from GM. Chrysler also suffered damage to its reputation when its compact cars, the Plymouth Volaré and Dodge Aspen, were developed quickly and suffered from massive recalls and poor quality.

In 1981, Japanese automakers entered into a so-called "Voluntary restraint agreement" limiting the number of autos that they could import to the U.S. to 1.68 million per year. One side effect of this quota was that the Japanese car companies began developing luxury cars that had higher profit margins, such as Toyota's Lexus, Honda's Acura,and Nissan's Infiniti divisions. Another consequence was that the Japanese car makers began opening auto production plants in the U.S., with the three largest Japanese auto manufacturers all opening production facilities by 1985. These facilities were opened primarily in the southern U.S., in states that were not union friendly. Although the U.A.W. made substantial union -organizing efforts at these plants, they remained non-union. The Big Three also began investing in and/or developing joint manufacturing facilities with several of the Japanese automakers. Ford invested in Mazda as well as setting up a joint facility with them called Auto Alliance International. Chrysler bought stock in Mitsubishi Motors and established a joint facility with them called Diamond-Star Motors. GM invested in Suzuki and Isuzu, and set up a joint manufacturing facility with Toyota under the name of Nummi.

Despite the financial and marketing upheavals during the 1970s and 1980s, the decades led to technological innovations and/or widespread use of such improvements as disc brakes, fuel injection, electronic engine control units, and electronic ignition. Front-wheel drive became the standard drive system.

By the mid-1980s, oil prices had fallen sharply, helping lead to the revitalization of the American auto industry. Under the leadership of Lee Iacocca, Chrysler Corporation mounted a comeback after its flirtation with bankruptcy in 1979. The Minivan was introduced in 1984 by Chrysler with the Plymouth Voyager and Dodge Caravan, and proved very popular. These vehicles were built on a passenger-car chassis and seated up to seven people as well as being able to hold bulky loads. Chrysler also introduced their "K-cars" in the 1980s, which came with front-wheel drive and fuel-efficient OHC engines. In 1987 Chrysler bought American Motors, which produced the Jeep. This proved to be excellent timing to take advantage of the Sport utility vehicle boom. Ford also began a comeback after losses of $3.3 billion in the early 1980s. The company introduced the very successful aerodynamic Taurus in 1985. General Motors, under the leadership of Roger Smith, was not as successful as its competitors in turning itself around and its market share fell significantly. While Ford and Chrysler were cutting production costs, GM was investing heavily in new technology. The company's attempts at overhauling its management structure and using increased technology for manufacturing production were not successful. Several large acquisitions (Electronic Data Systems and Hughes Aircraft Company) also diverted management attention away from their main industry. (Ford and Chrysler also joined in the acquisition and diversification trend, with Ford buying Jaguar Cars, Aston Martin, The Associates (a finance company), and First Nationwide Financial Corp. (a savings and loan). Chrysler purchased Lamborghini, an interest in Maserati, and Gulfstream Aerospace jets.) GM started the Saturn Corporation brand in the late 1980s as a way to gain sales from imported cars. While initially receiving a positive reception, GM later neglected to provide it much support. Around this time GM also began development on the General Motors EV 1 electric car, which debuted in 1996.

Main problem highlighted.

edited 17th Sep '11 9:34:27 PM by Enkufka

Very big Daydream Believer. "That's not knowledge, that's a crapshoot!" -Al Murray "Welcome to QI" -Stephen Fry
joyflower Since: Dec, 1969
#41: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:37:36 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#42: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:38:23 PM

In 1981, Japanese automakers entered into a so-called "Voluntary restraint agreement" limiting the number of autos that they could import to the U.S. to 1.68 million per year.

Does not compute.

Otherwise, yeah, the car companies basically have whatever is coming to them as justified, although it's sad that the whole cultural sector of cars is basically a mix of Japanese cars before it's American cars. What a sure sign of decay it is that what was once one of the richest states in the country is now apparently unable to afford basic welfare...

[up] That stopped being a valid argument sometime in 2008, Joyflower...

edited 17th Sep '11 9:39:23 PM by USAF713

I am now known as Flyboy.
Wicked223 from Death Star in the forest Since: Apr, 2009
#43: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:38:46 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
You can't even write racist abuse in excrement on somebody's car without the politically correct brigade jumping down your throat!
DarkConfidant Since: Aug, 2011
#44: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:39:01 PM
Thumped: This post was thumped by the Stick of Off-Topic Thumping. Stay on topic, please.
Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#45: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:40:13 PM

AHEM...

Anyway. I really wonder whats going to happen. You live in a dream land if you think all 11,000 people will go "Well I guess I better not be lazy anymore!" and will all happily get jobs.

USAF713 I changed accounts. from the United States Since: Sep, 2010
I changed accounts.
#46: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:41:39 PM

Only 11,000?

I thought it'd be a lot more than that...

I am now known as Flyboy.
tropetown Since: Mar, 2011
#47: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:41:42 PM

Welfare doesn't give people enough to live off of alone, so people are still motivated to look for work while they're on it. Removing welfare like this is idiotic, for all the reasons already stated.

Thorn14 Gunpla is amazing! Since: Aug, 2010
Gunpla is amazing!
#48: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:42:08 PM

[up][up]

Just a number I got from the article. Not sure the real number.

[up] Not to mention the money we gain from this is dismal.

edited 17th Sep '11 9:42:40 PM by Thorn14

DarkConfidant Since: Aug, 2011
#49: Sep 17th 2011 at 9:44:21 PM

I think that's utter bull the notion that if you get rid of unemployment insurance that people are just going to magically walk up and get jobs when they'd otherwise mooch on the system.

Yes, there are deadbeats, and there are those who try to game the system. However, that number isn't very large compared to the vast majority of people who want jobs, who are actively looking for a job, and simply can't find one because demand is insufficient for businesses to hire. And you know what's going to happen? More people will get laid off because once people get cut off, they won't have any money to spend, which means no business income and demand, which means no jobs.

feotakahari Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer from Looking out at the city Since: Sep, 2009
Fuzzy Orange Doomsayer
#50: Sep 17th 2011 at 10:00:31 PM

It's funny that the arguments in this thread are based in competing theories, rather than on competing data points. If this proceeds, we'll be getting a very clear data point for one side or another.

That's Feo . . . He's a disgusting, mysoginistic, paedophilic asshat who moonlights as a shitty writer—Something Awful

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