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Meh. When he's equally willing to criticize the U.S. education system (which has far worse problems than this), then we'll talk.
edited 26th Aug '11 6:07:22 PM by TotemicHero
Expergiscēre cras, medior quam hodie. (Awaken tomorrow, better than today.)
I changed accounts.
I don't know anything about the UK school system...
Unless Harry Potter is more accurate than I assumed it is, and I assumed it wasn't accurate in the slightest...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Hrmmm...
https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BritishEducationSystem
That should clear things up.
The Paedofinder General
So in reality he is moaning about IT classes not being as in depth as he feels they should be?
By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!
I changed accounts.
The location fraud sounds like it could be remedied... somehow...
I am now known as Flyboy.
Pretty much. That, I can attest to. We never did GCSE IT because our teacher thought it was too easy.
We instead did CLAIT IT, which was easy... Wait, what?
So yeah. I can attest that IT class could not be in-depth as they should be, but I doubt being able to design (which is what IT is - designing things, not coding) impressive documents and webpages is a highly regarded skill.
I don't care how easy the coursework was, that second Higher Tier paper was hard as hell.
Speaking as someone whose IT grade tanked because of exams (*grumble grumble*), I'm going to agree with Schmidt, at least from what people on here have said of his comments.
However, I'd appreciate it if someone could copy/paste the text on the page for those of us who can't open the link. *
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Edited OP.
The Paedofinder General
Eh I found my school's IT to be quite in depth.
Also judging by friends who carried it on to A level it became even more relevant and in depth regarding programming.
I don't think pushing IT at cost of anything else is a rewarding goal though, update the IT lessons and let the students choose for A Levels like normal, just make sure the material taught is relevant and up to date.
By the powers invested in me by tabloid-reading imbeciles, I pronounce you guilty of paedophilia!
I'm not sure I could entirely agree with the concept of having automatic coding classes in school. That seems rather... specific rather than general. I would have computer literacy classes but coding/design of any sort with respect to software is a specialised skill, so I would treat it as an elective.
vigilantly taxonomish
He's got a point. All my IT classes were shit. In my school there wasn't even the option to study anything beyond basic software stuff at GCSE level.
And the maths education in the UK is dreadful. Innumeracy is a serious problem here.
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I feel that there's room for improvement in every education system. And in an increasingly technological world. IT classes and related subjects become increasingly important. Though I agree that it shouldn't be at the expense of other subjects. (Frankly, I don't think current US standards for those subjects is very good. All I ever took was a course that taught me how to use Excel and stuff. Community college courses have a wider range of subjects, though.)
So that's what this does
Until recently, a university I was associated with had a computing degree course whereby it was possible to get through the second year without writing a line of code. Students knew how to work this and so third year students, who were meant to be learning advanced concepts, were struggling with for loops because they hadn't programmed for 15 months.
This was resolved outside the system by a lecturer who took over a core 2nd year module and used his own discretion to force students to write code for that module. The fact this situation could have existed was damning in itself though.
tilkau
I think that it would be quite practical to merge some of the more advanced math into a programming class (with an emphasis on programming, rather than maths) for the few situations where advanced math is really needed.
For example, probability theory is one part of more advanced math that's unfortunately non-intuitive for many people, but is very helpful for assisting you to make well informed, considered decisions.
edited 27th Aug '11 2:39:38 AM by SavageOrange
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Problem: Most of the "advanced" math is either calculus or complex algebra, neither of which are intuitive to use on a computer.
Math is immensely helpful for programming but the two are usually treated as separate courses. I wouldn't say math is very specific at all considering it's a requirement for all science/engineering/math that you might take in university, whereas programming is only required for a handful of post-secondary degrees/diplomas.
Although I'm getting a sense here that Eric Schmidt also meant that the software classes that do exist are pretty crappy as well. That would also be bad.
Well at GCSE I only got a D in IT which is pretty much a fail and I didn't actually care too much mainly because IT was just a laugh really, a lesson where we could just mess around on the internet rather than doing any real work. Therefore it meant my coursework which I had 2 years to do was rushed at the end and was incredibly underwhelming and I went into the exam without any real pressure thinking 'this is IT how could I possibly mess this up'. I guess Schmidt might have a point in that as a subject it needs a serious overhaul so that it actually feels like a real lesson like Maths or English. In fact my school no longer even has it as a mandatory subject at GCSE being displaced by Citizenship of all things.
As for Maths, I got a C at GCSE. That is a pass and I'm willing to leave it at that. It was strange I could solve quadratic equations pretty impressively by my mathematics standards but I could be stumped by basic arithmetic at times. My teachers were great and incredibly helpful so I put it down to an innate inability as opposed to any real problem with the teaching of it.
Sneering Imperialist
Your experience with GCSE IT mirrors mine almost exactly. I will say that the teacher was bloody useless, which didn't help, and the coursework relied on a marking system that was utterly retarded - there was a list of criteria for marks, and the moment your work missed one of those criteria it wasn't allowed to gain any more marks.
If ever there was a subject that required serious overhaul, it was IT.
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vigilantly taxonomish
Through years 7-9, my IT classes were taught by the strictest, most terrifying teacher in the school (kept his desk incredibly neat, and woe betide you if you ever addressed him and were a fraction too slow to append your comment with "sir"). We certainly weren't permitted to use the Internet. He was actually very good at what he did, and we did the work in those classes. Unfortunately, all the work involved producing boring documents to very precise specifications in MS Word, Publisher, Powerpoint, Access and Excel.
GCSE IT was only available as an additional class outside of regular school hours, and was taught by a D&T graphics teacher. It was more of the same, but the deadlines were tighter. I dropped that class at the end of year 10.
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The Paedofinder General
They only taught it outside of normal school hours? :s
I have to say I was looking at the history of my old school and it turns out they won several grants for IT and Maths as they were doing really well with the results, which explains why I didn't see IT/Maths education as really being bad.
I'd say really it depends on the schools, so just tighten up the regulations for teaching the subjects.
edited 27th Aug '11 1:02:02 PM by IanExMachina
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vigilantly taxonomish
Aye, I think the closest that they offered within regular school hours was Business Studies (which I didn't take because I figured I had better things to be doing with that time than studying BS). I don't actually know what those classes involved (marketing and finance, I guess?), but I'd be willing to bet they didn't involve computer science.
I didn't think it was a very bad school, but it does have kind of a shitty reputation, so IDK. Maybe my school just sucked.
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Proud Canadian
I knwo why your math education is so bad; you call it the "maths".
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Decemberist
Bobby G, you're being serious? I went to a very crappy school but we still had 4 lessons of IT a week during school hours.
Dutch Lesbian
I'm agreeing with other tropers: my IT class at GCSE (which I formally finished on the 25th, when I got my results) was exceedingly poor. I finished my coursework back in January, but I couldn't get any advice on it because the teacher was trying to educate the students who'd done no work and thus had grades somewhere in the G's.
And he completely failed to do theory work with us, hence why my grade (a C, as I said above) was mostly down to tanking the second exam.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14683133
Hot on the heels of the release of GCSE results (Hooray for me!), comes this.
Also, because discussions on outsiders' views on UK education are decent.
So, is Mr. Schmidt right? Is the British education system failing our youth?
I can't comment that much, as I went to a grammar school.
The article:
He made his comments at the Mac Taggart Lecture at the Edinburgh International Television Festival.
Dr Schmidt said the UK needed to reignite children's passion for science, engineering and maths.
And he announced a partnership with the UK's National Film and TV School, to help train young online film-makers.
Dr Schmidt told the audience of broadcasters and producers that Britain had invented many items but were no longer the world's leading exponents in these fields.
He said: "If I may be so impolite, your track record isn't great.
"The UK is home of so many media-related inventions. You invented photography. You invented TV. You invented computers in both concept and practice.
"It's not widely known, but the world's first office computer was built in 1951 by Lyons' chain of tea shops. Yet today, none of the world's leading exponents in these fields are from the UK." Television transformed
He said he had been flabbergasted to learn that computer science was not taught as standard in UK schools, despite what he called the "fabulous initiative" in the 1980s when the BBC not only broadcast programmes for children about coding, but shipped over a million BBC Micro computers into schools and homes.
"Your IT curriculum focuses on teaching how to use software, but gives no insight into how it's made. That is just throwing away your great computing heritage," he said.
He said the UK needed to bring art and science back together, as it had in the "glory days of the Victorian era" when Lewis Carroll wrote one of the classic fairy tales, Alice in Wonderland, and was also a mathematics tutor at Oxford.
Dr Schmidt said the internet was transforming television, even though people still spent much more time with TV than the web. Money shared
The TV and the internet screens were converging, he said, and a social layer was being added to TV shows through Twitter and chat forums.
He denied claims by Rupert Murdoch and others that Google was a parasite, taking billions of pounds in advertising without investing in content - saying that last year it shared $6bn worldwide with its publishing partners including newspapers and broadcasters.
He also said Google was a friend, not a foe, of television.
"Trust me - if you gave people at Google free rein to produce TV you'd end up with a lot of bad sci-fi," he said.
He also reassured television bosses over copyright violations, saying Google could take down sites from its search system within four hours if there were problems.
Dr Schmidt is the first non-broadcaster to give the landmark lecture, which is dedicated to the memory of actor and producer James Mac Taggart.
It has previously been delivered by some of the most prominent names in broadcasting including Jeremy Paxman, Mark Thompson, and Rupert Murdoch and his son James.
edited 26th Aug '11 6:21:54 PM by Inhopelessguy