Moody Downgrades Japan

Man,this is not Japan's year.I don't have the link but from what I heard on yahoo@ is that Moodys has downgraded Japan.This year seems to want to kick Japan where it hurts and it is not funny.

Zannen da ne...

Any justification given?

I think it has to do with their debt or something.I also remember it is also mentioning their government managing their debt as well.Yeah,Moodys downgraded Japan because of its own debt issues.

This goes back to the recession and the mounting debt that resulted out of it. The downgrade could had happened anyway whether or not there was an earthquake.

EDIT: Ninja'd.

edited 23rd Aug '11 7:02:48 PM by MalagasyParrot

So the idea of debt not being a bad thing truly has fallen apart at the seams this year.

It's better then having no money circulation.

Tom, I don't think anyone ever said debt wasn't a bad thing, so much as they said it wasn't an immediate threat...

Well when the U.S was downgraded mayor Tom said it was no big deal...

^ I did? I know I said somewhere the effect of a downgrade would be negligible since any lesson or message sent would fall on deaf ears in the Democratic Party (and some Republicans).

But this takes it one step further defeating the notion that high percentages of GDP as debt (in the case of Japan, beyond their GDP) are non-issues. It completely destroys the Keynesian stance on debt in recessions.

When did Japan try Keynesian stimulus?

Also Japan's bond rates are still rock bottom, especially when compared with, say, Germanýs bond rates. So that's strong evidence that Japan's debt is not an immediate problem.

edited 23rd Aug '11 9:09:02 PM by storyyeller

I don't know, but I do know that Japan's debt is a much larger percentage of their GDP when compared to the US, which is apparently a really bad thing...

It's a bad thing, but not an immediate problem. The real threat to Japan is terrible demographics and lackluster politics. And of course, the troubled world economy but that's a problem everywhere.

edited 23rd Aug '11 9:12:11 PM by storyyeller

I don't know, but I love when people say "the US should be an IT/service economy like Japan!" and then I say, but Japan's economy is sinking like a lead brick...

I think that Germany would be a better goal. Except that it is sinking too. There's nowhere safe left.

Japan economy might not be sinking. if you use GDP / working age (20-60year). their economy actually quite good. several economist had argued that Japan economy is look bad only because of demographic.

Except China, of course!

Until that bubble pops...

China has issues.

if you look with long-term perspective. US, India and Brazil probably would become great power in 2030-2040. China, Europe, Japan, and Russia have serious demographic problem, in 2030 they have to support very large population of elderly and have declining population.

@Tom: yes tom, a couple downgrades means the Tea party was totally right and we should tax the living shit out of the poor and give the "job creators" free reign

Doesn't Japan have

a) a debt of over 200% GDP? b) A shit load of domestic bond holders?

So bascially, a downgrade won't affect them as much as a USA downgrade would affect the Japanese?

Anyone demanding the JSDF to pressure Moody's to cancel the downgrade? No? Oh, must be an american thing.

Anyway, as I understand it, Japan has been keeping their economy up with very artificial means for decades, and it's now when the house of cards starts falling when it really bites them in the ass.

^^^ Nice strawman.

No matter how much Major Tom pisses you off, engage what he actually says, not your caricature of it. Or ignore him, if you wish. If he posts something egregious. report it. The petty sniping at him does not do you any favors. I will start thumping for this.

Do you even know what the Keynesian stance on is in a reccesion? Its all about using a surplus that has formed in the good years to spend it during the bad. But no-one on this board has ever said "High levels of debt is good".

Edit: The Japanese Banks bailed out everyman and their granny which meant that alot of the banks carried too much debt, and Japanese compaines failed to engage in any economic activity which meant there wasn't much demand going on.

edited 24th Aug '11 5:00:05 AM by whaleofyournightmare

^ People have repeatedly associated high levels of debt as a non-issue whilst proposing Keynesian solutions. Tomu for one does. It flies smack to the contrary of the reality going on that neither debt spending nor Keynesian methods are working.

How many more downgrades must be seen in order for that to be realized? The UK? France? (Both in very real danger of a downgrade) More downgrades on those already downgraded including Japan?