this is not a good pic for a couple of reasons: Critical Research Failure

@OP Yeah, I remember launching a thread over the same thing you posted about. It's just you, man.

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.

I remember learning about it officially in high school. Jesse Owens is important here because he was an "inferior" black man who bested the "master race" German in some track events, causing Hitler to no-show the awards ceremony, as he'd rather honor no one at all over honoring an "inferior race".

I like the Calvin and Hobbs one. Much better.

Fight smart, not fair.

Agreed.

edited 15th Aug '11 11:30:41 PM by dRoy

I'm a (socialist) professional writer serializing a WWII alternate history webnovel.

If anyone wants to toss in a crowner ... actually, I'd better go hit that hay. Make one yourself :p

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

When it comes to Olympic history, I think the one story damn near everyone knows is Jesse Owens going to Nazi Germany, defeating the supposedly "superior" Aryans, then running up into the stands and punching Hitler in the face. Oh, wait, that last bit was another guy◊, but still, it's a story everyone knows.

edited 16th Aug '11 6:21:29 AM by suedenim

Jet-a-Reeno!

Why are you assuming everyone knows Olympic history?

Fight smart, not fair.

I'm not, but if anyone knows anything about Olympic History, they'll have heard the Jesse Owens story.

The standard is "anyone with a cursory knowledge of the subject will know it's wrong," not "anyone with no knowledge of the subject will know it's wrong."

Jet-a-Reeno!

Blank crowner's attached, fill 'er up.

Might I add that there's an Image Pickin' going on over at Did Not Do The Research for the same Calvin And Hobbes strip to replace its current image? I honestly do think itd be better off there than here.

I added the two-panel C&H pic to the crowner.

The problem is that we've set the definition of this as demonstrating a lack of cursory knowledge about the subject. There are two questions here:

1. What's "cursory" knowledge?
2. What's "the subject"?

So, as regards the sign pic, the main problem is with "the subject." Is it history? The Olympics? Olympic history? Someone with "cursory" knowledge of the contemporary Olympics might conceivably not even know that the first modern Olympics were in 1896 and held in Athens; someone with just a "cursory" knowledge of history might not even be aware that the Olympics exist. On the other hand, someone with a "cursory" knowledge of Olympic history would likely know about the '36 Olympics, seeing as they were pretty important Games, interacting as they did with some interesting political events (to say the least) and having some great examples of sportsmanship, and some nice record-breaking besides.

The problem with the Calvin & Hobbes pic, as I see it, is with question 1: What's "cursory"? I would put forward that a decent test of "cursory" knowledge would be "Things You Should Have Learned In School Had You Been Paying Attention" (two virtual brownies to anyone else who knows where that's from), and Calvin's problem is that he hasn't been paying attention—it's sort of the whole point. It fits, but I suspect that the fact that Calvin is a little kid who doesn't pay attention in class, whereas we know nothing about the protester other than that he/she is almost certainly an adult, indicates that the protester pic is a slightly better fit—especially given that, as a protester against the Olympics, one hopes that he/she would have done a bit of research on the subject before getting into it. More to the point, I certainly learned about the "Nazi Olympics" in school, and most everyone I know had that on their curriculum (my friends are the sort who pay attention in history class). In other words....

(BTW: EDIT: Corrected typo.)

edited 16th Aug '11 9:42:17 PM by karstovich2

Motives and character traits aside, Calvin still made a glaring factual blunder that was immediately obvious to his entire class, which does fit the definition of a Critical Research Failure quite well.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Exactly.

As the person who started this thread I want to throw my support behind the Calvin cartoon it fits much better than the current pic

The Nazi steeling the Olympics is not a wildly known fact, I only found out about it by looking at the dates of previous games and realizing that it coincided with Hitler’s early years in power.

Also snubbing Jessie Owens is an urban legend brought on by anti-Nazi propaganda and not a widely known one nowadays. I asked various people about it and the most common response was them asking if it was the incident at the 1968 Mexico City Olympics.

Actually, no. Jesse Owens himself along with many other athletes present said that Hitler did not congratulate anyone at the awards ceremony, thus snubbing no one. If he had congratulated everyone BUT Owens, then he would have snubbed him. But that is beyond the point. If you want to support the Calvin And Hobbes pic, then feel free to vote for it below.

edited 17th Aug '11 8:16:56 AM by battosaijoe

I would say the same thing. Jesse Owens's victory at the Olympics may be well-known, but the fact that said Olympics actually took place in Nazi Germany of all countries seems to get drowned out by that whole 1940s thing which occured later.

edited 17th Aug '11 8:40:27 AM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Aw, the tally on the "keep the current pic" option is borked...I'll ping the mods.

What do you mean?

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

It has 9 yeas, 6 nays, for a total of a +4. Normally, 9-6= 3.

"Your kindness gives me the presentiment I can be reborn. Now, I want to believe at least in you." - Kaori Yae

I noticed that too. Database got out of sync somehow.

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Now it's saying that 11-6=6.

I'm on the internet. My arguments are invalid.

I think the C&H pic is a perfect fit here. Nothing says obvious common knowledge like an entire classroom of kindergarteners shouting you down.

Also, how the heck did both options get into the positives? Even without the math error, we've got +4 and +2. Surely people would vote against an option if they didn't like it.

edited 19th Aug '11 3:36:12 PM by storyyeller

Blind Final Fantasy 6 Let's Play

First-graders, actually, but...

As for the scores, the voting should be on how well each one demonstrates the trope by its own merits, not necessarily in comparison to each other. Voting one up doesn't mandate the other to be voted down.

edited 19th Aug '11 6:44:58 PM by Stratadrake

An Ear Worm is like a Rickroll: It is never going to give you up.

Not sure if others think the same way, but I usually have "two rounds" of voting. The first round, I vote up every image that I like, or that would be at least acceptable. Then, later, if a couple of them are clear leaders, I'll keep my Yes vote for my favorite of the bunch and vote down on the others.

Jet-a-Reeno!