Venezuela and the Chavez Legacy

The saddest part is no matter how difficult it is to find food, somehow criminals never seem to have problems finding ammo.

edited 9th Oct '16 11:41:32 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

Damn. I had no idea things were starving bad.

I'm looking for an honest opinion from venezuelans. What was the situation in Chavez' times? I recall him being the worst, but lately I've been hearing that Venezuela was actually prosperous during his government, kind of like how Lula is terrible but both his mandates appeared to be fine before they led into Dilma's economical terror.

The oil barrel price was nearly at 120 dollars back then, which helped to keep things afloat for a while.

http://www.cracked.com/personal-experiences-2128-my-wealthy-country-became-dystopia-6-realities.html

So how accurate is this article about how and why Venezuela is the way it is now? The article seems to suggest that Venezuela's doing badly now because of slashed oil prices and years of corruption ensuring there was no safety cushion.

edited 10th Oct '16 7:58:38 PM by M84

it was, to cquote the chinise "intersting times" in the politica aspect, chavez was picking fight all the damn time, against the oposition,US, europe....pretty much everyone, and the red where unbeatable thanks to chavez charisma(imagine a Trump who dosent fumble every damn time) in economic aspect we where pretty much depent on Oil and there where already sign of bad stuff happeing(which in retrospective where foreshowing of thing to come) and from most part, the insecurity where growing out of control here in maracaibo but that is the oposition fault more than anything

So that is what I recall about chave time.

Mostly accurate, but I have a few issues with it:

• The leading paragraph mentions that the economic crisis was a sudden thing, but it's merely a result of over a decade of deranged policies. See below.
• As you point out, the article points out to oil causes and corruption as the main causes of the crisis, but it's just one of many causes. Other causes include prices currency controls, lack of judicial security, expropriations (as mentioned later), politicization of companies, money printing, and whatever else I'm forgetting.
• The buying-twice-per-week thing is for public markets. (Although private ones do put other limitations, too).
• Coca-cola isn't scarce (it's not a first necessity product, hence it escapes many of the regulations that make products scarce. Ironic, isn't it?)
• See a couple pages back on my opinion on 'the CIA wanted to kill Chávez' thing.
• I'd wagger the '2 Bs. bills as toilet paper' thing is an urban myth.

Chávez ruled for 14 long years, so lots of things happened and the country was in many states during it. Let's see...

In economic terms, Hugo 'I am not a socialist' Chávez started slowly, with the majority of his policies being social programs. Things accelerated in 2003 with the subjugation of PDVSA to the Executive, the installation of the currency control system and expropriation of companies related to the oil sector. Still, things were mostly fine (but certainly not 'prosperous') until about 2007 with a socialist rush, namely expropriation waves, his more grandiloquent projects, parafiscal funds, etc., and from then on year after year you could easily perceive how things worsened after every year. And yeah, oil prices did manage to hide some of that.

In social terms, things also deteriorated due to the economic issues and especially the politicization of public companies, and in political terms Thugo Chávez and his belligerence caused a mess from the get go.

I dunno how apt the Lula/Chávez comparision is, but the main point of policies not manifesting their horribleness in the short term is there.

edited 11th Oct '16 10:13:30 AM by Stormtroper

uh, I don't know what are you talking about, the buying-twice-per-week thing is for regulated produts and they cannot be selled on private stores otherwise, maybe what you're saying is that goverment stores only sell regulate products and private stores sell other products that you can buy whenever you want (if you have the money)?

The article mentions that 'Venezuelans are only legally allowed to shop twice a week' (it makes no reference to regulated products or otherwise), but as I said this is only generally true for public stores.

edited 11th Oct '16 4:36:07 PM by Stormtroper

Coca Cola was scarce around the time that article was written. It was from when The Coca Cola Company was threatening to leave the country.

edited 11th Oct '16 5:20:06 PM by NapoleonDeCheese

Well, there are some small rumors going on the social networks that the National Assembly is surrounded currently by Maduro's security people as the TSJ has just, in an interpretative sentence, taken away nearly all powers from them.

Anyone heard of this?

EDIT: Nevermind, seems to be a prank audio going around, I imagine, by how it isn't being given any good source and not many are talking of it.

edited 11th Oct '16 7:29:32 PM by daltar

Asi que el CNE acaba de pausar la recolección de firmas hasta nuevo aviso......genial....genial

que se joda este pais

Hardly surprising. You have to be an idiot to believe that the reds will hand over power and go to jail out of good will.

350 NOW!

Translation for the curious:

And the Tribunal ruled that the 20% quota has to be met per state, which is bullshit enough already but also four red governors had or are having regional tribunals declare null the gathering there.

I honestly didn't expect they'd just kill the referendum like that, I thought they'd keep up the façade pulling bullshit obstructions and requirements and let it die like that.

edited 20th Oct '16 11:44:12 PM by Stormtroper

So the general impression is that Venezuela isn't going to get better any time soon, but instead is going to get a whole lot worse? Crap.

acording to pro-davinci, this trick only ensure those those states cant recolect firms but since the red decide EVERY states need the 20% they kill the whole thing in a national level.....

I mean, if this was novel I will call that cleaver, but since it isnt it just mean they are dicks, im sure this will backfire HUGELY on them since it kill any pretension they are legal

let me put it this way: they take a whole democratic practice and shoot them in the eyes, plain and simple

Oh yeah, lest we forget, for no legal reason regional elections were suspended until next year, or rather, until the PSUV's popularity rises.

So never them, good to know that

Well, Capriles got really pissed off.

Of course, Venezuelan masses are still apathetic, cowardly sheep who would make Bolivar spit us in the face if he came back, so nothing will come out of it anyway.

It isn't just our uselessness in getting rid of the government, the damage we've taken is already too big. Those kids that go to school without eating? They will never get bigger nor smarter because of lack of nutrients. That is something irreversible but people go on with their lives likes It's nothing.

More than that, most people probably don't even feel guilty over everything that's happened and most likely would make the same mistakes again.

The student's died in vain in 2014. At the very least I'll keep trying for their sake.

edited 21st Oct '16 7:04:47 PM by The_Masked_Keaton

You know, this thread sort of needs Hibiki Oni or someone else like him, in terms of posting activity, because it looks like the rest of us just let things pass by.

So the Reds almost shot down a fucking civilian flight coming from Colombia thinking it was an enemy plane. They are paranoid out of their minds, aren't they.

edited 23rd Oct '16 8:34:43 AM by NapoleonDeCheese

yeah, with less "fucking jew" going on, that was pretty awfull of him.

And yep, they are a soft version of north korea a this point, fading less and less into irrelevance, is....just sad.

Yah. I didn't fulfill my promise to post more, did I?

So, National Assembly going 350, huh.

What does "going 350" mean?

Rebellion. It refers to article 350 (the last one) of the constitution and perhaps the most quoted one, especially among 'radical' circles. It says: 'The people of Venezuela, loyal to its republican tradition, to its struggle for independence, peace and liberty, shall disregard any regime, legislation or authority that opposes democratic values, principles and guarantees or undermines human rights.'