Welcome to the main discussion thread for the Marvel Cinematic Universe! I'm editing this OP and pinning it to establish some basic guidelines. All of the Media Forum rules
still apply.
- This thread is for talking about the live-action films, TV shows, animated works, and related content that use the Marvel brand, currently owned by Disney.
- While mild digressions are okay, discussion of the comic books should go in this thread. Extended digressions may be thumped as off-topic.
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[Edited by Fighteer]
Edited by Fighteer on Dec 15th 2022 at 9:55:58 AM
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Well, that applies to all super soldiers.
Josef who is the strongest super soldier introduced to date, is only half as strong as Spiderman.
edited 29th Mar '17 12:11:19 PM by dantecito
Let's not forget that Bucky's main skill is being an assassin. I am sure if you put him on a building he can take out more attackers than Hawkeye with his sniper riffle.
Funny but not helpful
Poor Hawkeye. His main skill is supposed to be killing people from far away
Forever liveblogging the Avengers
it's a living
They should just make him more awesome at it. I want them to put him in a position to kill someone with a fingernail.
This was in 2015, way before there was a trailer.
He will be a big help against Thanos
◊.
edited 29th Mar '17 1:06:55 PM by comicwriter
Bucky was also consciously holding back. When he was in full Winter Soldier mode he was able to hold his own pretty well against T'Challa.
Formerly G.G.
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edited 29th Mar '17 1:09:41 PM by GAP
"We are just like Irregular Data. And that applies to you too, Ri CO. And as for you, Player... your job is to correct Irregular Data."
I don't think Bucky is on Iron Man's level. The fight relies entirely on contrived circumstances (close quarters, Tony's targeting and flight systems compromised) and the fact that it's two people against Tony, and Bucky still ultimately loses.
edited 29th Mar '17 1:17:37 PM by comicwriter
Well, he did kill his parents, so that's something, isn't it?
it's a living
I don't think using your environment and situation to your advantage should be counted as external to a character's abilities. If we look on the DC side, Batman and Lex Luthor can both fight Superman and win (some of the time), just not toe to toe. The Hulk and Thor can beat anyone in a straight fight, but the point of characters like Cap, Widow, Hawkeye, and Bucky is that they don't fight straight— it's all about asymmetrical warfare, espionage and stealth, money, gadgets, training, and the element of surprise. You can't separate that from the character. For that matter, some characters pretty much are their team— Cap might not be able to fight any foe he meets, but it's his ability to lead, to gather troops and rally them in common cause, that's actually part of his powerset.
edited 29th Mar '17 2:44:08 PM by Unsung
Also, Bucky didn't want to fight initially, he wanted to flee, he only attacked vicious when he felt that Steve was in danger.
If Bucky really wants to take out Ironman, he can. Again, Trained assassin....if he has time to plan, he can shoot Tony anytime when he is out of his suit. In a battle he can look for a good position and then shot his arc reactor.
The specific question asked was is Bucky's arm as strong as Iron Man. I'm gonna say no. The only reason he gets as far as he does is because of the contrived circumstances I mentioned, not because he's so physically powerful that he just bulldozes Iron Man one-on-one.
You can say under the correct circumstances Bucky could beat Tony, sure. This is fiction. Literally anyone could beat anyone with the proper set-up or plot contrivance (which is why I find power level debates useless to begin with). If the writer wants to have Hawkeye defeat Thanos or the Hulk, they'll give him a special anti-Thanos/anti-Hulk arrow that lets him win. That doesn't mean he's now as physically strong as Thanos.
edited 29th Mar '17 2:46:31 PM by comicwriter
it's a living
Ah, okay. Kinda seemed like the discussion had gotten broader than that, but sure.
We wont know unless they do arm wrestling....
Queen of Good Things, Honest
Right, that was the point.
In Winter Soldier, Bucky was a great assassin and also a physical slugger who could effortlessly manhandle Black Widow and Falcon. He could even go toe-to-toe against Captain America and win. He was the scariest motherf*cker around because not only was he talented at espionage and assassination, but even in direct combat, it was next to impossible to beat him. He was the Terminator wading through an onslaught of hopeless attacks and bringing only death.
But then Civil War kicked him into the higher power tiers and suddenly he's not so unstoppable anymore.
My Tumblr. Currently liveblogging Haruhi Suzumiya and revisiting Danganronpa V3.
Even in Civil War it is revealed that there is a super soldier who is even stronger than he, called Josef.
Josef in physical strength is probably stronger than Black panther, but weaker than Spiderman.
- Black Panther overpower the metal arm with much effort.
- Josef with moderate effort.
- Spiderman with little effort.
edited 29th Mar '17 3:47:25 PM by dantecito
What kind of stupid game is Sony playing right now? What's all this nonsense about Spidey might leave the MCU after Homecoming and it's sequel?
it's a living
Hardball negotiation.
No offense to Sony, but they're not in the best position to negotiate. The reason why everybody loved Spider-man appearing in Civil War and having yet another reboot in Homecoming was because Spider-man being a part of the MCU was one of those things the fanbase always wanted but never thought would actually happen. After TASM2's utter failure to set up a franchise because the only thing that movie did was set up and not actually tell a satisfying story on it's own merits, Sony was in dire straits.
So now that Homecoming's not even out yet, Sony is back on its bullshit yet again??
edited 29th Mar '17 4:15:19 PM by higherbrainpattern
it's a living
Yep. Some executives are probably running scared right now. Seems like they've been making a lot of desperate moves of late, to make up for their mishandling of the property.
Again, it might just be the reality of the situation. She's correct in saying that two rival movie studios agreeing to share a character or put someone in another studio's movie is something that's very uncommon and is likely a nightmare of legal red tape. They might not have the groundwork in order for anything beyond Homecoming 2.
it's a living
Sure, but it's both— it's not negotiated yet because Sony didn't want to give away any more than they had to. That they're making this move at all doesn't reflect well on anyone involved with Sony's Spider-Man.
I was thinking Re the Venom without Spider-Man movie that it could actually work if they did something like an evil corporation creating or wanting to use the symbiote and had the infected hero working to control their murderous urges- or at least only direct them at the guilty. So basically [PROTOTYPE].
And it also struck me that since Flash Thompson isn't called that in the MCU/ Homecoming, they could have Flash rather than Eddie or a composite of the two, and have the protagonist be this war hero who agrees to experimentation as a way of healing his injuries.
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I'm not worried - Homecoming 2 is still two years away at this point. And in any case...I don't know, I'd be fine with two movies, plus Civil War and Infinity War.
But it would be nice to get more than that.
Oh God! Natural light!
edited 29th Mar '17 12:19:33 PM by Prowler