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Edited by Mrph1 on Nov 30th 2023 at 11:03:59 AM
Yea, even as some one who was just arguing they did the right thing, I don't think Snowden would have it as bad as Manning did, her being a transwoman did not help in the slightest with that. :/
edited 15th Jan '18 9:15:02 PM by Imca
![[up]](https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/smiles/arrow_up.png "[up]"){kind=icon}
It is nothing to negate how shitty our prisons are. Not in the least.
edited 15th Jan '18 9:15:19 PM by GamesandTropes
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
I suppose transphobia likely did play a part, yes.
I'm still leery of the idea, mind you.
Oh God! Natural light!
I think it’s important to note that manning didn’t go to Wikileaks with the intent of helping Russia-at the time there were other players than assange in the group that have since left. Similarly, Snowden didn’t go to Russia because he was aiding the kremlin—he went there because he didn’t want to get extradited and realized he’d fucked up later. Expecting them to know beforehand Russia’s plans to destabilize the United States before they were apparent to the us government itself is pointless and adds maliciousness to both their actions that wasn’t present. They’re not evil villains trying to get people murdered.
Oh, bother.
Nobody here was arguing that. Heck, the Kremlin didn't even come up while discussing Manning.
As for Snowden...it's less that I think "he's a Kremlin mole" and more "taking refuge in a country that is guilty of everything he criticizes the USA for if not worse makes him kind of an asshole". And I highly doubt Putin personally helped Snowden get to Russia out of the goodness of his heart or respect for transparency and privacy. At best he did it just to troll the USA.
edited 15th Jan '18 9:23:42 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
Its also one of the few without US Extradition.
Would any thing in Europe have looked better? Yes, but can you honestly say they wouldn't just put him on a plane and send him back?
If you know a decent nation without a US Extradition Treaty I would like to hear
Because I really cant think of any.
edited 15th Jan '18 9:24:06 PM by Imca
It's not about Russia's plan... it's that Putin's human rights record, especially in the sphere of whistleblowers and on covering up things... is well known, and, unlike here, they do just straight-up murder people.
edited 15th Jan '18 9:24:16 PM by GamesandTropes
This is the point at which you lost the right to be taken seriously on this issue. The federal, state, and municipal governments of the United States exist in a state of tense detente regularly marked by outbursts of hostility and conflict. That you would use the actions of one to make a case about how the other would behave is ludicrous, a step removed from saying "the Russians do it so America must too".
You do not have a case and unless you provide one you should let the subject drop.
Well, if you don't want to end up in federal prison, sometimes you don't get to choose to run away to utopian paradise. I can't say I wouldn't do the same thing, given the circumstances.
edited 15th Jan '18 9:26:53 PM by Ludlow
Asgore Adopts Noelle
Net Neutrality is literally 1 vote away from being saved: Currently, 50 Senators (all 49 Democrats, and Susan Collins (R-Maine) ) are for restoring Net Neutrality. They need just 1 more Republican in 30 Days to save it...
... Unfortunately, that might mean Net Neutrality will be dead until 2020...
edited 15th Jan '18 9:30:15 PM by DingoWalley1
They won't get another Republican, the battle is lost, no point in dwelling on it now. We'll just have to deal with the hand we've been dealt.
Lisa Mukowski?
Ludlow, would you please stop talking as if you know the future.
Oh, bother.
Agreed. And this is coming from someone with the signature "Disgusted, but not surprised".
edited 15th Jan '18 9:36:44 PM by M84
Disgusted, but not surprised
If someone had been making these posts back in 2016, maybe we all could've spared ourselves the pain of dashed hopes.
Ludlow, that's crossing a line.
No, it would've been pretty pointless back then too. Trump was not some inevitability that absolutely was destined to happen, or any such nonsense.
Yeah, if nothing else you're in full on doomsayer mode right now. That doesn't help anyone.
I'd gladly be proven wrong. Sadly, I'm always proven right.
Ludlow. Cut the smug attitude. Now.
Not as angry as the name would suggest.
Perhaps you should take a break from this thread, Ludlow.
Oh God! Natural light!
Fine, you'll all see eventually anyway. The idea that we can take back the US is an illusion, one that will be dispelled soon enough.
Ludlow, give it a rest because acting like you know what will happen is the quickest way to get people to NOT listen to you and I speak from experience.
Remember, these idiots drive, fuck, and vote. Not always in that order.
That's enough.
Eh, I think it's possible to think someone deserves prison time while also acknowledging that prison conditions in the U.S. tend to be pretty bad at best, and horrific at worst and should be improved.
edited 15th Jan '18 9:14:50 PM by LSBK