The General US Politics Thread

I'm not so sure about that. His base might be willing to let it slide, sure, but what of all the other people who voted for him? I mean, a group that large has got to contain at least some people who would be angry about such a decision. And let's face it, that would almost certainly not be the last time Trump made such a decision.

Or if you wanted to go for the immediate catharsis, you could have just started pelting them with coal.

So that's how coal country is going to be revitalized....

Now you guys have me imagining Trump ranting on Twitter because Santa gave him coal.

"...I have come here to eat candy canes and kick ass. And I'm all out of candy canes!"

Someone should mail lumps of coal to Trump tower, and the offices of various Republican officials.

"Got visited by three very dumb ghosts last night. Just like #CrookedHillary to show me harrowing visions of Christmas Future! Sad!"

Thing is there was always a kind of equality among white men in America. No matter if you are rich or you are poor, white men were aristocrats in the Athenian Greek sense.The word Aristocrat comes from Athenian Democracy. It shocked me to discover that something that I believed was part of feudalism was actually part of elected government. In Athens, there was a class of citizens who were believed to represent "Arete" a complex word which means virtue or "best qualities". These citizens were expected to lead armies, fight in battle, and govern the society. In practice, these individuals tended to be the wealthiest and oldest families...the Greek word "Kratos" means power, so if Demokratos means Power of the People, then Aretekratos means "Power of the Best".

And in America the "best men" has historically been white men over women, POC and immigrants. Over time, immigrants especially European immigrants assimilate into the aristocracy and women like so many queens in medieval Europe end up serving the interests of the oppressors, rather than the brave ones who stand up for their rights. Trump is able to cross class boundaries because he appeals to the ultimate aristocracy in America, the ultimate feudal entitlement of white "male privilege" which he defends by attacking "political correctness".

Matt Yglesias said something similar here about Trump's appeal. The fact that Trump eats Big Mac or Hardee and other fast food places makes him relatable to the WWC, whereas asking folks to eat healthy and so on, irritates them for some reason even if "those people" care more about their economic interests. Krugman'sm article in response to Yglesias is hilarious. It's more or less that line in OOTP, so "We have to be matey with the Slytherins...fat chance!".

On Trump's voters turning on him, my assessment is the following:

Of the primarily anti-establishment, "drain the swamp" voters, at least some of them will have enough perspicacity to realize they've been duped, and some of them (though how many is up in the air) have already started to realize that fact. The right-wing media can and will spin this in multiple ways and mitigate a lot of this, but even they have a limit because they can't just straight up lie about who he's appointing or what he's signing.

Of the "economic concerns" voters who were just indifferent to minorities as opposed to wanting to spite them, if Trump doesn't do anything to stimulate the economy and improve their situation they are going to become disillusioned. It doesn't really matter what the news says if your buying power is no better or even lower than it was before and your job situation is even worse. I mean, unless we become Oceania where the right-wing media LITERALLY starts pushing out fake numbers of economic growth or whatever, they can only stretch the truth so much on that as well. The prevalence of actual fake news springing up makes me feel really tepid about even that, admittedly.

The racists and the people who drank the Kool-Aid will stick with him no matter what he does, but there are a number of voters who were tepid in his support of him or are willing to turn their backs on him if he doesn't give them the goods. We can only hope that they will be significant enough to help cost him the presidency in 2020.

edited 10th Dec '16 7:17:33 PM by Draghinazzo

@Myster Man 23 Trump is a conman. It's what he's always been. His entire business career is him scamming as many people as possible, ruining their lives, then making off with all the cash while he can. He is incapable of shame and really has no interest in any attempt at changing now that he's won the biggest con of his life. He's already giving into his old habits with his supervillain cabinet and international incident contacts/sales pitches.

The question isn't if he'll do something horrible enough to anger even the dumber non-zealot voters, but when he will do so. The problem is the the Republican party traffics in zealotry and extremism so flagrantly these days that what he'd have to do for even them to decide he's not worth it will have to be utterly catastrophic and only come long after they and his cronies sell the country piece by piece and curtail as many of those pesky civil rights as possible on their way to making even more impressive gerrymandering. Meanwhile, while Putin does his damnedest to restore the Soviet Union and climate change accelerates enough to bring mass extinctions. We really don't have enough time to afford the GOP's little power grab.

We need full government cooperation to handle the crises coming, but I have no reason to believe that can happen. The Republicans are ecstatic right now that they think they have vanquished liberalism forever and are cocky enough to unleash their granny-starving money grubbing without any attempt to hide it. Moreso, they have every reason to ignore it ias mucha as possible to exploit their advantage and get the chance to rig 2020's census even more in their favor. Unfortunately, the Democrats are in such disarray that they have no real opposition and fake news is growing even more influential so barring a miracle of people suddenly growing a brain/conscience, things look bleak.

@Right wing media making up numbers to support Trump: It would be really ironic if they did that considering they accused Obama of the same damn thing in 2012.

So, you don't think people will turn against Trump until it's too late? What exactly makes you think that?

edited 10th Dec '16 7:22:52 PM by MysteryMan23

Biden says to Trudeau and Merkel that Canada and Germany respectively are gonna be very important in the following years, since they're some of the only places in the world with sane leadership atm.

I have no doubt that people are already feeling buyer's remorse for their Trump vote, but I don't know if they'll stay angry and vote in large enough numbers to overcome the GOP's election rigging techniques since they are so good at controlling the public narrative. All they have to do is put in a few delays on their catastrophic legislation to keep the effects from coming in until election season passes and they'll just keep expanding their stranglehold. So far, their extremism has met with nothing but rewards since their voters never learn and their propaganda wing has only expanded.

I don't have high hopes for the future unless the Democrats somehow manage to shape up and get enough of a media foothold to spread a useful message and motivate people to fight against the mango fascist.

I know in the long run the GOP just doesn't have enough angry white people to keep power forever, but they can cause massive problems and undermine democracy enough to hold power as the country rots for decades as of now.

edited 10th Dec '16 7:34:23 PM by Geostomp

John Kennedy beats Democratic Opponent in Louisiana Senate Runoff Election, bringing the total of Senators to 52(R)-46(D)-2(I) (or 52-48, due to the Independents aligning with the Democrats).

Doesn't look good in keeping Trump's worst ideas from passing the Senate...

The Louisiana Senate seat was a goner a long time ago...Louisiana Dems tend to be more conservative than others, which paradoxically means that there's less polarization there.

I mean, a thing is that it's unusual for people who voted for a candidate to start disliking him before he even takes office. That's typically the time when a politician can count on being as popular as he'll even be.

Which suggests that what we're seeing right now is the ceiling of Trump's popularity, not the floor.

@Geostomp: Well, who knows what the future holds? For all we know, things could suddenly go very wrong for the Republicans' plans, or they could make huge mistakes in implementing them, or something like that.

I'll say this, though: you seem to think the Democratic Party is key to stopping the Republicans. I agree; actually, I plan to volunteer for the Democratic Party and help them out in any way I can. And, honestly, I'd like to see others do the same. But, that's just me.

@Kostya: It's Okay If You're A Republican, as the acronym goes.

A thread summarizing Russia's known involvement in meddling with our election, which also links to a subthread that goes over Trump's campaign ties to Russia and Putin (namely, Paul Manafort, Carter Page, and Michael Flynn).

It ends on a simple note: we need to protest like we have never protested before. Either that or start learning to make borscht.

We're entering uncharted waters here.

If this election has shown us anything, it's that silence is no longer an option. We cannot depend on the normal checks and balances to save us because they are all being controlled by the extremists. We cannot rely on votes because the system is so horribly rigged. We cannot depend on the media because they will be too weak willed to call out the most obvious lies and bigotry. We cannot depend on business because they are too interested in abusing this new oligarchy as much as possible. We cannot depend on public opinion because we've already seen it shift to the point where a man like Trump can show himself as unfit in every way, but still get tens of millions to swallow his pathetic lies.

There is nothing left to do, but fight. Now more than ever. If not, then we will see all we love about this nation and world ruined by a malicious wannabe dictator and his fascist friends.

@ Julian Lapostat

The fast food thing makes sense. Trump has been described as a poor man's idea of what a rich man is like. And that's why they love him.

As described in Paul Fussell's book Class: A Guide Through the American Status System, Trump is the classic example of the High Prole (short for Proletarian.) No matter how much money you amass, it doesn't automatically confer upon you Upper Class (or even Middle Class) ranking in the social hierarchy.

If it weren't for low class, Trump would have no class at all.

edited 11th Dec '16 2:23:07 PM by pwiegle

So, Canada and Germany are the last best hope in light of America's geopolitical suicide last month?

...We're doomed.

Hey, we're not doomed. We're just going to potentially be devoid of any major bastions of democracy and liberty for at least the next four years, that's all. Unless of course you Crazy Canucks can step up to the plate. No pressure.

Well, there's still the chance that the electors might rethink their choice in light of the CIA's information (especially since some establishment Republicans in Congress seem to be joining in), and the courts apparently might disqualify Trump because of Russia's blatant interference.

edited 10th Dec '16 10:14:21 PM by TrashJack