What did people dislike about Dragon Ball GT anyways?

Personally, I liked it. The first half of the series reminded me of my favourite parts of Dragon Ball...before people were repeatedly brought back to life, before everyone got to crazy power levels...

In fact, the main reason I started watching Dragon Ball GT was because I heard that Goku became his kid self again and started having adventures reminiscent of his early days....which were my favourite parts of Dragon Ball...

...Z was good too, but it felt so different...also, the series just got redundant after the Frieza arc.

Of course, I started losing interest in the series again sometime between them fighting the metal guy and defeating Baby...where it started looking like Dragon Ball Z again. It shoulda ended there imo.

Also, the opening song, I liked it. I heard they changed it into something else in the dub, never watched it.

edit: Now that I think about it...there is a slight miniscule possibility that I didn't like Dragon Ball Z as much as classic because I watched it in english...I've seen Dragon Ball in who knows how many different languages...but only seen Z in english.

edited 7th Jul '11 4:56:53 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

STEP INTO THE GRAND TOUR

GRAND TOUR GRAND TOUR

STEP INTO THE GRAND TOUR

DRAGON BALL GT

FUCKING DRAGON BALL RAP

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...step into the grand tour? Rap?

edited 7th Jul '11 7:31:57 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

I barely watched it when it was first released. Relatively recently (2 years or so ago) I downloaded it and tried to watch it again. Had to stop in less then 10 chapter because of how much it sucked.

I agree the idea is good. It could have been made in an excellent series, actually. However, what pulled me off was how much inconsistent it was. It triyed too much to be like the original Dragon Ball. But this is not a sequel from Piccolo Daimaoh saga, but of the Buu saga. It is very annoying see the characters to face challenges that they should be able to easily bypass but, instead, just forget how and get stalled. Just in the few episodes I watched I remember they forgetting how to fly at last once and running away of a giant without much of explanation of why (I also vaguely remember Goku not being physically strong enough to do something mundane, but I might be wrong, as my memory is fuzzy)).

To put simple, the story used characters way too powerful and, instead of using it (as in making more explicit power is not everything), they just pretended they were weaker then they really are. That is just bad writing.

Furthermore, I found, from the start, the whole premise was dumb (when put together with the rest of the series). Goku becoming a child is a obvious (and annoying) market move. He somehow getting (noticeable) weaker due to this is just nonsensical. It is not like physical age had ever influenced the characters before (Goten and Trunks are ungodly strong at the age of 8, their fusion even more). Aside from that, the whole Dark Dragon Balls (or whatever are they named) are just are obvious plot hole. Kami-sama creating something that powerful is already weird to begin with, he keeping it around is pretty bullshitty, this still being around after he ceased to exist is just inconsistent with all we know about the dragon balls. Unless Dende and Popo recreated it, which makes no sense.

I also find it boring. May or may not have relation with all I said above. I frankly think it is more fault of the anime writing staff. Pretty much all anime-only story-lines are boring, as far I remember, except, maybe, the afterlife tournament (it have been ages since I watched it, however).

Anyway, personally, I think they could have made a much better use of the idea if they just dumped Goku and Trunks altogether and made Pan the main character, pairing her with Bra and some alien(s) they found in the space (to mirror Goku and Bulma teaming up Oolong, Yamcha and Puar in their first journey). With that they can still even move on to a more battle focused series if they wanted, after a while, since Pan and Bra are sayans (thus should be able to become supersayans). Of course, this wouldn't sell, as it wouldn't have Goku or even a male main character (they could made up a new son for Gohan, though)

PS:I also like the OP song. But I first heard the Brazilian dub of it, which was just an almost translation, anyway.

PPS:Holy cow! My post become much bigger then I had anticipated! ^^;

edited 7th Jul '11 7:48:35 PM by Heatth

haha...I did remember raising my eye brows at the thought of Goku and Trunks putting any bit of effort at all fighting some of the enemies they fought...of course, part of me actually enjoyed that part a bit because it reminded me of my favourite parts of Dragon Ball....

Starring Pan seems like a pretty interesting idea...and perhaps bring back Lunch/Launch to travel along...

Or perhaps have a developing Buu be a co-star as well, but because he's a human now, he has to slowly get stronger again.

Either way, I enjoyed the first half of GT more than I enjoyed Dragon Ball Z some point during the Frieza arc and beyond. By then I had wished they'd beat him already and quit stalling.

edited 7th Jul '11 7:56:44 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

I think GT had a pretty interesting premise, but the execution was just horrible. Pan could've made for an interesting protagonist, but is reduced to benchwarmer as Goku takes center-stage. Trunks did very little other than remind people what he looked like during the Cell Saga. Pilaff was Put on a Bus right after he arrived, and Uub ran that bus all the way down (seriously, not even fusing with Buu could get him much notice). Gohan and Goten were under-utilized, while Piccolo and Krillin don't even show up. Finally, everything from the Fusion Technique to SS 4 felt badly phoned in. Basically, GT didn't really know what it was doing.

Well, I am not too sure if I didn't enjoyed it because the writing was bad (as I believe) or because I was too busy Wall Bangering myself over every inconsistence with Z(which, I admit, is quite possible). There is nothing wrong at enjoying GT by what it is, I just strongly believe it really sucks at being a sequel to Z (and not because of They Changed So It Sucks, but because of the plot holes).

Bringing Lunch along wouldn't work, sadly. She would be way to old. They could would a child of her, though. With Tenshinhan. Can you imagine someone with the same "problem" as Lunch but that can also destroy mountains? It would be hilarious.

Uub(I assume it is him you are referring by human Buu, right?) could work as well. He having to "slowly get stronger again" wouldn't fly too well, as not only it have passed at last 10 years but also he was shown to be pretty powerful from the start. However, if we make so Buu's power is way too much for a human body to deal, some Power Limiter could do the trick, which allow him to go Super Mode when flashy battles are needed. In fact, he could make a good male main character (even today female main characters are not as popular in shonens, sadly).

Man, now I want GT to be remade. This discussions remembered all the possibilities the series had. Even overpowered-Goku could work, if well written (no giant fleeing, please).

Btw, you mention you liked the first half of GT. Can I assume you didn't enjoyed the second half (much more battler oriented, I believe) then?

Also, when I talk about Z, I am mostly talking about the manga. While I watched pretty much all the anime (I may have missed a few episodes, but not whole arcs), I barely remember it (I remember disliking, and even hating some Fillers, much before knowing what 'filler' was, however).

PS:Talking about GT have a surprisingly effect of making me verbose.

edited 7th Jul '11 8:20:49 PM by Heatth

To answer your confusion, Signed, that's what the dub intro consisted of.

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Well...in my (poor) defence, I barely paid attention to Dragon Ball Z by the end.

"What's this? Fat pink think became good? What's this? Fat pink thing is evil now? What's this? Fat pink thing becomes evil looking skinny pink thing? What's this? Evil skinny pink thing became a tiny kid for some reason? What's this? Buu is human now?"

A lot of details are lost on me as I watched the series...

And I can still believe Uub is still weak...maybe it would take him longer to get stronger or something. He was only a kid when he appeared in Z.

I paid a bit of attention to the second half...and the part with the evil Shenlongs wasn't too bad since every one of them also talked about what wish they were created from...some of which talked about the original Dragon Ball anime.

But overall, it was a lot less enjoyable than the first half of the anime.

Even worse, Funimation only aired the second half of the anime!...granted I already watched the 1st half of the anime years before it started getting english dubbed. But still...they aired the much weaker half and completely NOT air the much better first half?!

To me, that was a Wall Banger.

---

ah...I knew they changed it in the dub, but I didn't know they changed it into ****ING RAP!!

Yep, I can fully understand why some people would hate GT now.

You know what's funny? I've seen Dragon Ball GT dubbed in other languages...and while the dialogs are dubbed(and pretty well too, little to no changes), and they left the theme songs intact!

edit: I saw the english opening in You Tube. And I just remembered listening to it long long ago...I thought it was a fan-made AMV.

edited 7th Jul '11 8:32:43 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Mr. Buu and Uub appeared in the same episode(s) in Z. Is that hard distinguishing them.

Anyway, at last the manga, Uub is shown to be ridiculously strong even as a child. In fact, it is said it wouldn't be far-fetched if he had won the tournament. He was outclassed mostly because of his complete lack of ki (thus not flight or ki blasts). His punches should be insanely strong even by them. 10 years of pure training should give him even more strength and control.

Not that this matter for our discussion, of course. We have already agreed he would make a nice addition to the cast. (In fact, his lack of appearance is a down point of GT, as Watchtower pointed. Specially since he was set up to be Goku successor.)

I never watched anything about the evil Shen-Longs (dropped it way before that). Which is kinda sad, because, as much I don't think the actual writing would satisfy me, the call backs to the wishes made would be kinda cool. Speaking on it, the whole evil Shen Long thing is a nice idea. It ties well with the Elder Kaioh Shin saying the Dragon Balls shouldn't be used all time in the end of Buu saga.

There is no English dub of the first half of GT? O.o That is just too crazy to be believed. It aired over here just fine (and we also followed the trend of airing Z first).

PS:I've heard Akira Toriyama was involved with the anime as far as approving general ideas go (as well as character design). This would explain very well why the anime is made of nice ideas badly used.

edited 7th Jul '11 8:46:46 PM by Heatth

Really? From where I watched, when GT first aired, it only aired the parts after the good half ended...the half I liked...

Either that, or I discovered GT was dubbed and airing really really late....

edited 7th Jul '11 8:50:35 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

By "over here" I meant 'Brazil'.

I don't know how English dub went. I find 'crazy to be believed' 'cause it is very nonsensical and it doesn't tie of how it was done here (unlike the early airing of the Z part).

edited 7th Jul '11 8:51:28 PM by Heatth

I wasn't kidding when I said I barely paid ANY attention at all.

As for how the english dub went...well, they replaced the OP with a rap....asides from that, never watched it beyond a few episodes.

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Funi actually did dub the first half of GT, under the label of "The Lost Episodes". These "Lost Episodes" later aired on Toonami after the series proper finished its run.

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness." My twitter

I find sad you didn't pay attention at Z post Freeza, since I actually enjoy it more then the first two sagas. All sagas had a bit of Endingfatigue, though. Cell and Buu sagas were more interesting when there wasn't a single overpowered vilain in the end (though Buu masked it better with plot twists).

As for the English dub replacing the song with rap. Isn't that the standard over there? I know the same thing happened to One Piece. I've heard it is relatively common to a song to be completely changed in English, for some reason. Over here, this is much rarer (most songs are translations).

Anyway, following your first link in this thread, I found this opening in the related vids. And it is the OP of the first half. I thought this was the one you were talking about.

Similar to how the original Dragon Ball was aired after Dragon Ball Z, then? I assume the op I just posted came from that?

edited 7th Jul '11 9:00:42 PM by Heatth

Yep, that is indeed where the infamous "GT Rap" comes from. And to nitpick, Dragonball actually started airing its Funimation dub during DBZ's run (around the start of the Buu Saga IIRC.) not after. DBZ did finish first though.

"I'll show you fear, there is no hell, only darkness." My twitter

WHAT?!

What's with the messed up airing order?!

Airing the 2nd part of GT and then re-airing the beginning labelled as "Lost Episodes"?! WHY?!

Airing Dragon Ball Z first and then airing the first Dragon Ball anime?!

I assumed that they finished airing Dragon Ball back then and then only aired Z so that's why I couldn't see it!*

What was up with that?! I liked Dragon Ball original more than Z overall*

...so they skipped over the first anime in favor of Z. I liked the first half of GT over the second half....so they skipped the first half of GT in favor of the 2nd half...

I wrongly assumed they were well past that phase by the time GT is being dubbed...

I mean, nowadays, the only company that dubs their own opening songs is 4Kids...I didn't think Funimation would stoop that low as well.

---

PS - why are they called "The Lost Episodes"? Did they really lose them or something when they decided to dub GT? Licensing issues? Piracy?

edited 7th Jul '11 9:36:08 PM by Signed

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

Because they already called the second half of GT "GT", I would assume. If the "episode one" of GT is when the evil Shen-Long arc starts (for example), I would be confused if there is a new "GT" series that happens before that.

yeah, i really didn't mind the rap intro, besides [[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIMlekRQCsMbesides, they redid the intro and made an English version of the Japanese song, at least from what i remember, sung very well IMO]], what bugged me was it was a blatant attempt to cash in on the franchise,plus i make an attempt to avoid anything that wasn't canon from the manga.

never the less i did watch it. for the most part it was OK. it gave a what if, since they usually rely on the dragon-balls so much, which made it interesting. considering they had ways to get that shit in record time. the writing was iffy at times, still some of the same old same old crap where everyone is being useless, or doing nothing but being scenery.

edited 7th Jul '11 10:58:38 PM by ARC1300

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My reasons for disliking GT are similar to Heatth's reasons, basically. Trying to return to the adventurey premise of the original Dragon Ball might've worked, but they kept doing completely stupid things with it. I heard that things get interesting around episode 15 or so, but I just wanted to kill something before even reaching that point. I like the OP and ED though.

As for why the first fifteen are called "the Lost Episodes," the deal is that Funimation, in their infinite wisdom (he says, rolling his eyes) decided to skip ahead to the more action-oriented (aka "Z-like") episodes of the series to draw in fans, and then go back and deliver the earlier, more DB-like episodes once fans were already sold on the series. Actually, considering my complaints, this might actually have been a good move, but its still kinda lame.

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But it's the Z-like portion of the anime that it started to fall apart...

"Every opinion that isn't mine is subjected to Your Mileage May Vary."

true

its what the fans liked at the time, or still do i don't know. I personally love dragon-ball myself over z

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Pretty much. Fans of the franchise at this point didn't like the return to goofiness. After all, original readership of the manga picked up after they started to focus more on the fighting. Unfortunately, when you're crafting a plot without a firm guideline to go off of, it can fall apart quite easily if you don't know what you're doing, hence the neglect of characters in favor of GOKU SAEV TEH DAY. When your series even lampshades this kind of tendency in-universe, you know it's hit rock-bottom, but you just HAVE to keep going because there are still fans that want to watch it despite all the flaws.

edited 7th Jul '11 11:01:37 PM by nomuru2d

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