Metal Gear/ Metal Gear Solid

Those really sound like cyborg clones made for a later game that jumps the shark.

Series already jumped the shark when I could use Old Snake, buy some guns, and then shoot the enemies like I'm the terminator.

Seriously, MGS 4 is just so anti-Metal Gear gameplay wise sometimes.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 24th 2023 at 10:38:09 PM

That's part of the joke I imagine.

I do enjoy the railgun as a guilty pleasure.

Going from MGS4 with an arsenal you could buy ammo for, or just retrieve ammo from bodies to MGSV with limited load out and barely any ammo available in the field was quite something.

And then later on you just have basically unlimited resources and can call in airstrikes.

MGS 4 still badly breaks the whole stealth part of the series harder IMO.

Snake should not be walking around with an armory equaled only by crazy men in Montana who will keep on stockpiling weapons.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 24th 2023 at 10:43:27 PM

Solidus did have an amazing voice actor, (RIP John Cygan), and the big thing he aspires to is to create a lasting legacy otherwise denied him by the Patriots biological tinkering.

Identifying with the American Founding Fathers, and seeking to emulate their break away from a system which they felt denied them control over their lives, to try and accomplish that, only to have his own rebellion appropriated by that very system is bitter irony to his character. Which is a far more noble goal than Liquids, even if he's just as ruthless about obtaining it, though it does put him at odds with Snake.

I love the title of this video.

Edited by Avenger09 on Nov 24th 2023 at 2:50:43 PM

Liquid was also retroactively retconned into opposing the Patriots by MGS 2 considering his lines as Liquid Ocelot.

And yeah, Solidus is a fascinating villain. I said quite a lot about him but I'll repeat it here:

Solidus is an excellent character to drive the themes of legacy and deception. He seeks to emulate Big Boss just as Raiden seeks to emulate Solid Snake. His dream of creating a lasting legacy because he can't have children, through his revolt is a good example of what happens to those who undertake a righteous crusade at any cost.

And those he was using ended up using him for their own causes. He hoped that through strength and willpower he could change the world, but his zeal made him an easy target for those who would exploit him. Fortune attempts to hijack Arsenal Gear, while Olga secretly aids Solid Snake and Raiden; Ocelot and the Patriots, in the meanwhile, manipulated, incorporated and invalidated his entire uprising in order to complete the S3 Plan.

It's kinda Shakespearean when you think about it. I have something of a soft spot for him as a villain despite getting overlooked by most of the fanbase.

He's not very different from Raiden himself.

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 24th 2023 at 10:48:30 PM

I haven't watched this video yet but I has an interesting angle I think.

If Solidus had a Revengeance style theme song, I could see it being called "Planned Obsolescence", that or something like "Radical Revolutionary".

Wasn't Ocelot pretending to be Liquid in Solid 4? I.E., anything he says about the Patriots is Ocelot himself, whether he was pretending to be Liquid or not?

Edited by HallowHawk on Nov 24th 2023 at 8:40:24 AM

I'm talking about Liquid Ocelot in MGS 2, specifically at the end of the game.

Ocelot really was possessed by Liquid here, and Liquid makes a statement about being ready to "bury the Patriots for good".

Edited by RedHunter543 on Nov 25th 2023 at 12:42:59 AM

Forgot about that.

Though it does make sense. Liquid most likely thought getting rid of the Patriots can make him surpass Big Boss as he tried and failed (twice) to destroy them.

Also in Metal Gear Solid 2, you can actually read the "In The Darkness of Shadow Moses" that Raiden mentions in the story. It is an expose of the events from the perspective of the support team written by Nastasha Romanenko. It also does some canon-welding to integrate certain plot elements of the two games. The most notable moments include

• Richard Ames is Nastasha's ex-husband, and let her get away with evidence of the whole operation, including several ret-conned mentions of The Patriots. This is why Ames is set up to die "of Foxdie" in MGS2
• Further insight into Campbell's being forced to play along with setting Snake up to be the Foxdie pawn. He truly did hate every minute of it.
• The "Saves Meryl" ending is explicitly referred to as the canon one
• Nastasha mentions talking Snake through disarming the bomb that was timing his fight with Liquid
• But the most notable bit is that Liquid is revealed to have been fully aware of The Patriots and that they were the ones who sent in Snake as a Foxdie carrier. And threatens them that after Snake is dealt with, he'll be coming for them, too.

And not canon welding, but a moment I like (especially in light to how Otacon does develop, contrasted with how Huey will later):

• Nastasha has little sympathy for Otacon's story of being "used" to develop REX. Just because he didn't know they were going to arm REX with nukes, he was still building a weapon.

Really, its no wonder why Snake couldn't help screwing with Raiden a bit in MGS 2 (if you aren't going with the "its all simulation" theory); He had to go through the same shit with everyone but him knowing what's going on.

Edited by diddyknux on Nov 24th 2023 at 11:47:14 AM

Yeah the book also retconned that Liquid knew about the Patriots and his revolt was to go after them as well.

Like father, like son.

Do you like iceberg videos? Found this breakdown of a Metal Gear one I liked quite a bit. I learned things (and some fandom things) that I didn't know, so I had fun.

(For anyone who doesn't know the iceberg format, its basically a list of trivia about a franchise broken up into sections, where the topmost section, the "tip of the iceberg", is facts about the series most people know, and the bottom level "the depths below" is the most obscure facts, rumors, and outright speculations)

Pretty lengthy at over an hour, though, but if you like something kicking around as background noise....

MGS 4 had a Codec conversation with Hal while Old Snake goes in to retrieve Rex. He reminisces about his colleagues and how much fun they had...then remembers that during that whole time they were building a fucking Metal Gear.

Excellent, this will make some great background noise while I work on my latest project.

Wonder if it'll explore the VR theory. Or Big Boss using Venom as an expendable pawn.

Sometimes the support team members who aren't necessarily the most plot relevant are some of my favorites - What they lack in mythos expanding, they make up for in just general information and trivia.

I actually really like Nastasha from MGS 1, for example. I don't know how much of the nuke cautionary tale is still relevant today - probably an unfortunate amount still - but its very fascinating. Also, her extensive description of cardboard boxes.

This is kinda cheating because obviously in future games she'd be VERY important, but in MGS 3 Para-Medic is so much fun. It was great trying to see how many of her movies I knew of.

And I like Amanda from Peace Walker for a dose of "Hey, America did some fucked up shit in the name of 'destroying Communism'" real history.

Oh yeah, the Codec is a lot of accurate fun facts that helped me out in middle school back in the day. Especially Amanda since I was doing a report on Nicaragua for history class once.

I think my personal favorite Codec story was Paz's diaries. Like it's such a fascinating look into her character and her complexity. I love how she goes from looking down on everyone at base and hating having to act like a school girl, to growing fond of Snake and the others, to wishing there was just a few more days for her cover to celebrate peace day.

Came across a pretty excellently made video detailing the absurdly tough restrictions on doing a Max Difficulty Big Boss Rank run of Metal Gear Solid 2.

8 saves. EIGHT. And a limit to shots fired. That... That doesn't sound fun.